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Posted: |
Sep 8, 2018 - 10:37 AM
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By: |
drop_forge
(Member)
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Miller's art first got wacky with TDKR, especially in the wake of the brilliant inventiveness on display in Ronin.
But I assume you *do* like Batman: Year One, written by Miller, drawn by Mazz. As far as origin reboots go, it exceeds The Untold Legend of The Batman and was the blueprint for Nolan's ...Begins.
YEAR ONE is tremendously good, though more for Miller than Mazz. However, when it comes to Frank Miller AND David Mazzuchelli, their work--individually and collaboratively--shines most in DAREDEVIL.
...and there I go again, talking about Marvel in the DC thread! 
Yes, Born Again was amazing. That and YO are like the two-step. First one, then the other. I can't complain. 
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I have love/hate feelings for DKR. I think the series itself is fantastic, and I like the art. His work with blacks/shadows was amazing, and was stolen shamelessly by innumerable artists. Miller's art for Dark Knight Strikes Again is another story though . . . Anyway, it was groundbreaking, and had some great moments. That said, the influence on the regular Batbooks was profound, and gave rise to the "Batdick" and "Batgod" personality that made me give up on Batman for years. Before DKR, Denny O'Neil and others gave Batman actual limitations that made him interesting, and felt triumphant when he found a way to win. After beating Superman though, I guess the writers felt there wasn't anyone Batman couldn't outthink and outfight, which made him incredibly boring to me. His antisocial/dickish behavior didn't do him any favors either, and made me wonder why anyone would willingly follow him.
Batman: Year One is great, and is still Batman's definitive origin story. The only thing I didn't like was how Selina Kyle was handled. Frank Miller's revision of her is a typical cliche of his that he seemed to love using in the later part of his career, and was never particularly interesting to me.
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Posted: |
Sep 9, 2018 - 8:10 AM
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By: |
Jim Phelps
(Member)
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I have love/hate feelings for DKR. I think the series itself is fantastic, and I like the art. His work with blacks/shadows was amazing, and was stolen shamelessly by innumerable artists. Miller's art for Dark Knight Strikes Again is another story though . . . Anyway, it was groundbreaking, and had some great moments. That said, the influence on the regular Batbooks was profound, and gave rise to the "Batdick" and "Batgod" personality that made me give up on Batman for years. Before DKR, Denny O'Neil and others gave Batman actual limitations that made him interesting, and felt triumphant when he found a way to win. After beating Superman though, I guess the writers felt there wasn't anyone Batman couldn't outthink and outfight, which made him incredibly boring to me. His antisocial/dickish behavior didn't do him any favors either, and made me wonder why anyone would willingly follow him.
Batman: Year One is great, and is still Batman's definitive origin story. The only thing I didn't like was how Selina Kyle was handled. Frank Miller's revision of her is a typical cliche of his that he seemed to love using in the later part of his career, and was never particularly interesting to me.
I agree, though I actually prefer Catwoman as a solo act, stealing stuff rather than her near-hero status when she teams with the Bat family.
Batman's antisocial behavior was imo toned down just a tad during the post-Knightfall era when Moench and Dixon were writing the Bat books. I don't know what the likes of Grant Morrison did with the character, but if it's anything like his JLA Batman, then I'm not interested.
We three discussed RONIN not too long ago in this theead, when the late(?) Neotrinity brought it up. It was a bit too intense for me back in '84, and it was probably the nearest thing to an indepndent-style comic I had read up to that time. I guess I tend to be comically conservative (though I have all 18 volumes of the R. Crumb series).
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Any thoughts on GOTHAM?
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I thnk we've touched on this before, but certain changes in contemporary comics leave me cold. The computerized coloring doesn't bug me as much as it used to unless they've turned everyone a sickly shade of grey (think "average FSMer"), but I really miss the old four-color process.
Even more than that, I miss comic book sound effects! Since the mid 1990s, fights are silent affairs with none of the descriptive, sometimes humorous "sounds" used to enliven the usual comic battle. Writer Doug Moench was known for employing humorous sound effects, or maybe it was his 1990s Batman letterer, the great Todd Klein--imo second only to Ben Oda as comicdom's greatest letterer. I also miss the scent of the old newsprint paper.
But don't mind me, I'm just an old man left with his memories.
Some comics still have sound effects, but it is certainly less common, which is a shame. When used properly, sound effects can be incredibly effective and bring a uniqueness to a character, whether it's Wolverine's distinctive "snikt!" when he pops his claws, or Spider-Man's "thwip" when he shoots a web. For me, the best usage of sound effects was Walt Simonson's Thor run. Whoops! This is a DC thread. Speaking of signature sound effects, a great usage from DC was the boom tubes from Kirby's Fourth World.
Anyway, for me, something I miss from the old days are thought balloons. These days comics are told from one, maybe two, character's perspectives, and there are captions depicting that respective character's thoughts scattered throughout the panels, but nobody really uses thought balloons. Admittedly, the thought balloons were probably overused back in the day, which could destroy the pacing, but I have no doubt a balance can be found.
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Posted: |
Sep 15, 2018 - 9:54 AM
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By: |
drop_forge
(Member)
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I thnk we've touched on this before, but certain changes in contemporary comics leave me cold. The computerized coloring doesn't bug me as much as it used to unless they've turned everyone a sickly shade of grey (think "average FSMer"), but I really miss the old four-color process.
Even more than that, I miss comic book sound effects! Since the mid 1990s, fights are silent affairs with none of the descriptive, sometimes humorous "sounds" used to enliven the usual comic battle. Writer Doug Moench was known for employing humorous sound effects, or maybe it was his 1990s Batman letterer, the great Todd Klein--imo second only to Ben Oda as comicdom's greatest letterer. I also miss the scent of the old newsprint paper.
Love Todd's lettering, too, but I really like the unique look of John Workman's letters on Walt Simonson's legendary Thor run, and, currently, Simonson's Ragnarok.
John Costanza did a fine job on Miller's Ronin.
Tidbit: Workman was the art director at Heavy Metal ca. '77-84.
I love the colors in Bronze Age and (to a point) Copper Age comics. I don't like computer enhancements. I prefer colors to complement, i.e. I don't like "blurring" and distortions. i want the artist to handle all that biz with his pencil/pen/brush.
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Posted: |
Sep 19, 2018 - 4:48 AM
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By: |
Jim Phelps
(Member)
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Appreciated your posting about this. The idea tickled me, and I was driving by a Walmart so I stopped in and they had all the Supes and Justice League, and Teen Titan, but just one Batman. I just had to snap them up.
Re: Justice League's lead feature – that was the first time I'd seen Rick Leonardi's name, let alone art, in a good while.
Are the new 100 pagers employing the "old time" comic creators? Reminds me of the "throwback" series DC had some years back.
Leonardi is mostly a Marvel guy, but he did some art for the big #400 issue of Batman, whch was Doug Moench's (first) swan song on the title. Other than that, Leonardi hasn't done much work for DC, at least in what I own:
http://comicbookdb.com/creator_chron.php?ID=547
I recall his work on the first Vision & Scarlet Witch miniseries, but only vaguely.
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Fun! I was just this past weekend enjoying the new issue of TwoMorrow's latest rag, Retro Fan. I only buy once in a while, but this one is a must get. It took me months to go see the movie (I think it was Spring Break 1979) because Superman?! Boy was I surprised when it turned out I loved it, bought up all the publications at the time, still have 'em....
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