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Posted: |
Feb 17, 2016 - 10:17 AM
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By: |
RoryR
(Member)
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So I listened to the Fox CD of the score on my good speakers at a slightly loud volume.
The only thing wrong with this presentation is the use of the Fox fanfare at the beginning.
While this presentation is not mixed as well as the film's music track or the (short) Project 3 LP, it still sounds very good on its own terms, and remains the best available presentation of this score.
I feel no compulsion to plunk down more money on this score unless or until a more definitive version with an improved mix is released.
Well, I'm glad you're happy with it, though I don't understand the logic of desiring an "improved mix" but at the same time sounding as if you're satisfied with what you have. Too bad you don't have the Intrada 1992 CD. I compared the Main Title between the two recently, and the increase in hiss in the later (1997) Varese CD, made from the same 35mm elements, is disturbing. Did the master deteriorate further just from 1992 to 1997, or did Varese just not bother to do all it could with the technology available back then? Just hope that in the twenty years that have elapsed, the 35mm magnetic masters have been well taken care of, or at the least that a large enough digital transfer file was done back then that can yeild that "more definitive version" of the OST recording you seem to want -- and I very much want -- but I don't think you're helping make that happen by being so satisfied with what's now so dated.
Anyway, I have John O'Callaghan's re-recording of Goldsmith's PLANET OF THE APES and I had planned to write a lot about it, but I've decided I've bored enough people here who have absolutely no interest in it whatsoever and I'd love to not be talking to them, but it's a public forum so all I'm going to say about is the following... Am I satisfied with this as a re-recording of my favorite score? Not entirely, but I'm not a big fan of re-recordings in general, not even ones done by the composers themselves, such as Goldsmith's re-recording of THE SAND PEBBLES with the Royal Scottish National Orchestra. That having been said, I still find this interesting and even "fun" to listen to. Why? Because in the end -- IT'S FUCKING GOLDSMITH!!! It also comes down to appreciation of a musician -- which I am not -- giving a performance, and knock all you want to as to how he's given the performance, it still seems to me a pretty amazing thing, Virtual Studio Technology prejudices not withstanding. Just listen to his versions of "The Hunt" and "No Escape" and you'll know what I'm talking about, but I'm going to let O'Callaghan finally speak for himself and quote what he's written in the booklet of this CD release.
"Instrumental sample sets didn't take me very far in recreating Goldsmith's orchestrations performed by Emil Richards, Chester Ricord and Hal Rees. There's really no substitute for the original percussion Goldsmith used back in '67 -- any chance for real success depended on locating and recording those unique instruments. As unlikely as it sounds, in a nondescript warehouse in an industrial park in Santa Clarita, California, I found L.A. Percussion Rentals which proudly touts the 'Emil Richards Collection."... Just a few days later, I was in my recording studio with the actual set of boom bams, Death Toll, timbales and many other one-of-a-kind instruments used on the Planet of the Apes scoring sessions."
I know O'Callaghan worked very hard to hit the mixing bowls, for instance, exactly as they were hit to produce the exact same tone and pitch of the original recordings, and he does it. And he didn't just limited his "live" performance to the percussive instruments, either. There's the amazing piano work done in "The Hunt" and "No Escape" in the original recordings by Jakob Gimpel.
"If this background, pedigree and fabulous performance weren't intimidating enough, you'd think my choice of piano would at least be straightforward: The Fox Scoring Stage had a classic Steinway & Sons Model D -- one of the most widely used and respected concert grand pianos. As I pounded away at a Steinway D, somehow, I just couldn't make this venerable piano punch through like it does in the original Fox recording made by veteran engineer Vinnie Vernon. I patiently persevered, knowing every piano has an individual personality -- even pianos of the same make and model. I worked my way through a massive Bosendorfer 290 Imperial Grand (which was far too dark and resonant), a Yamaha Grand (which was overly bassy) and finally found a Bechstein D 280 Grand. The rich range of expression from this German Bechstein piano made the cross-handed ostinatos of 'The Hunt' and the dazzling chromaticism and signature filigrees of 'No Escape' finally shine through like they should."
To my hears, O'Callaghan nailed the piano work to near perfection, and to those that won't give this CD a chance because of a mentality that's analogous to putting down a writer's book because he composed it on a word-processor instead of a manual typewriter, well, all I can say in the end is you're only robbing yourself of something you're supposed to be connoisseur of -- music.
All in all, I highly recommend the purchase of this CD, especially if you're a fan of the original PLANET OF THE APES. O'Callaghan's re-recording achieves finally what it's meant to, an evocation of the film the music was written for and of the genius of the composer, the late, great Jerry Goldsmith.
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I don't understand the logic of desiring an "improved mix" but at the same time sounding as if you're satisfied with what you have.
These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive preferences. Onyabirri is saying that while there is room for improvement, the Fox/Varése edition sounds decent (if not perfect) and has the complete score (minus the few bits that O'Callaghan outlines in his superb book).
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Posted: |
Feb 18, 2016 - 4:06 AM
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By: |
RoryR
(Member)
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These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive preferences. Onyabirri is saying that while there is room for improvement, the Fox/Varése edition sounds decent (if not perfect) and has the complete score (minus the few bits that O'Callaghan outlines in his superb book).
Thank you, this is exactly what I meant, and that I see no reason to buy another one unless it offers an upgrade from the Fox version. Hopefully in 2018.
Well, the "Fox version" would be the original 35mm magnetic film masters, and the problem with the '97 Varese CD is less about the mix, though there are problems with that in some cues, and more an issue of fidelity. The Varese CD just doesn't have the fidelity of the original recording when it was new. To hear the recording in its proper fidelity, you'd have to go all the way back to the Project 3 LP.
By the way, I also wanted to mention that on DVD and Blu-ray, PLANET OF THE APES' so-called "stereo surround" is actually re-channeled mono. You have to go to the session recordings to hear the score in true stereo, and O'Callaghan believes that original stereo recording was made to ultimately be mixed down to mono, as PLANET was only released in mono back in '68, as were all of its sequels.
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I received mine yesterday & have had a few listens; yes, there are synths, but they are really good, & the focus of the recording is on the "exotic" instruments & how Mr. O believes the score to sound based on the score. AND the book is very entertaining too.
I can recommend both, & this recording will be played whenever I spin the other versions of the score.
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UK residents - if postage costs are putting you off. Try Ark Soundtrack Square in Japan - less than $27 including delivery.
Or you could make it available on ITUNES,HD tracks,etc with a digital booklet
It does cost really anything to post it there.
Ford A. Thaxton
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Or you could make it available on ITUNES,HD tracks,etc with a digital booklet
It does cost really anything to post it there.
Ford A. Thaxton
Ford, I appreciate your continued lobbying for a download version of this CD. I do not want to engage in a back-and-forth, “yes it is—no it's not!” argument with you—we both have better things to do with our time. It was determined through ample market research for my products that the majority of soundtrack fans still prefer a physical form of media (i.e. CD or printed book) and that's why it's currently available on CD. Personally, high-resolution downloads are fine; however, I don't care for mp3's and don't buy them unless I have no other option available (I don't think I'm alone in this practice).
I may appear to be new on this “scene” but, don't get me wrong, I have done my homework here. Currently, there is no way to “pay-your-license-as-you-sell-per-download.” Not through Harry Fox, Easy Song Licensing, etc. Currently, there are only predetermined numbers of downloads and flat paperwork fees (regardless of whether or not you license 25 downloads or 2500 downloads). And, as of January 2015, you cannot obtain a mechanical license directly through Warner Chappell's website anymore—they refer you out to third parties. This is beside the point, though. I would like nothing more than to have a high-resolution download version available at an outlet like HDTracks and a 2LP 180g release (and both may happen down the road); however, there is far more involved than mechanical licensing and, as you know, all those aspects involve more money—lots of money.
Ford, with all due respect, if you have licensing information to the contrary, please provide a Direct Link to the website page specifically indicating a “pay-as-you-sell-each-download” licensing option, not just a generic Home page link to Harry Fox or some “well, figure it out for yourself” comment.
I am puzzled as to why you haven't contacted me personally at info@pithikosentertainment.com (as others have encouraged you to do here) regarding this matter and instead have chosen to “carp” about it every chance you get. If I choose to “...leave (hypothetical) money on the table,” ultimately, that's my decision, wouldn't you agree? No nastiness intended, but, would you be comfortable with me advising you how to run your business through a Message Board? I sure wouldn't.
John
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I am STILL happy with the FOX BOX tracks!
brm
ps if 'serious' composers wrote 12 tone music as well as Jg, there might have been an audience for it
that numbered above 3 figures
LOL!
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Has anyone else who ordered this CD got anything pro or con to say about it?
Has anyone else who ordered this CD got anything pro or con to say about it?
I just received the CD and Book this week and have already listened to the CD and am now beginning to read the book. I can understand why some people might be against the "sampled orchestra" sounds. I don't mind them in the context of this experimental venture. The "synth" strings are more noticeable in the fast passages and swirling figures but when performed as longer drones or variety sustained chords or individual melodic notes, it is not noticeable. Overall, they are listenable and enjoyable.
It has a sort of "demo" mock-up feel at times (similar to one presented to a director before proceeding to the final recording on stage or in the VR MIDI studio world) but it is enjoyable and listenable. The depth of soundscape is amazing and shows how awesome it could have been if the recording technology back then had been able to capture it.
I have heard many other scores that have used sub-par or low-end synth strings (RUNAWAY, CRIMINAL LAW and ALIEN NATION - and for non Goldsmith uses, THE BLOB remake, all the Puppet Masters except X - just to name a few) and sounded god awful. When those synths were used for any chaotic performance patterns it would become very grinding on the ears. I did not encounter that with Mr. O's performance (I am referring to "no ear-grinding"). It was however noticeable that synth strings were being used for those fast passages. But the performance and hitting the right notes and at the right times is amazing.
The synth brass does at times suffer a little at times but it is more tolerable and listenable than other all synth scores with awful synth acoustic instruments (commonly found in low budget horror - FULL MOON films).
Overall, I enjoy this effort as much as I enjoy seeing Concept Art that is not Photo-Realistic and is an attempt at true artistry and craftsmanship. Mr. O performed all of this and assembled all of this himself which is a feet in and of itself which I appreciate. No it will not be better than the original Goldsmith recordings but nothing ever will be, nor do I think Mr. O was striving for such a status.
No artist can ever make a Xerox copy of their original work without a Xerox machine. The energy and final result occurred due to factors that cannot be replicated. Mr. O went outside of the box at achieving something - a dream of his and did it and he is happy with his final result.
Not everything we hold near and dear to our heart has the same meaning to the artist from which that piece of art came. The Nutcracker is world over loved but the composer though of it to be among his worst composition.
I liked it and I am enjoying the book as well.
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