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Thanks for that YouTube vid. God it's still amazing how beautiful I find Islands in the Stream.
As for this Cd, I'm going to wait until I receive it to make judgements about its quality. The clips are a mixed bag for me as I've been using sample libraries since they came out in the late 80s. Obviously nothing can replace the orchestra and the writing in POTA in particular would be challenging to mock up but I applaud the drive and passion behind this project and will support it.
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Posted: |
Feb 15, 2016 - 7:52 AM
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By: |
RoryR
(Member)
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Thanks for that YouTube vid. God it's still amazing how beautiful I find Islands in the Stream.
That reminds me... Goldsmith himself re-recorded ISLANDS IN THE STREAM, but after getting the OST CD that's all I listen to.
Anyway, I've been listening to the '92 Intrada CD of PLANET and compairing it to the '97 Varese CD. Just hearing the "Main Title" cue, you can hear the drop in quality from the Intrada to the Varese, both sourced from the 35mm magnetic film rolls. The Varese really sounds lousy. If it were released today, it would an embarrassment. I have to wonder what happened to these elements in the few years between the releases? I also have to wonder why an isolated score track was promoted for the Blu-ray release of PLANET in '08, then didn't turn up. I have a bad feeling about the condition of those original 35mm masters. Maybe because of the dissonant nature of this score there's not as much love for it as for other things Goldsmith, like ISLANDS and THE BLUE MAX, but my biggest hope for this release, which I'm still waiting for, is that it stirs larger interest in the OST.
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Thanks for that YouTube vid. God it's still amazing how beautiful I find Islands in the Stream.
That reminds me... Goldsmith himself re-recorded ISLANDS IN THE STREAM, but after getting the OST CD that's all I listen to.
Anyway, I've been listening to the '92 Intrada CD of PLANET and compairing it to the '97 Varese CD. Just hearing the "Main Title" cue, you can hear the drop in quality from the Intrada to the Varese, both sourced from the 35mm magnetic film rolls. The Varese really sounds lousy. If it were released today, it would an embarrassment. I have to wonder what happened to these elements in the few years between the releases? I also have to wonder why an isolated score track was promoted for the Blu-ray release of PLANET in '08, then didn't turn up. I have a bad feeling about the condition of those original 35mm masters. Maybe because of the dissonant nature of this score there's not as much love for it as for other things Goldsmith, like ISLANDS and THE BLUE MAX, but my biggest hope for this release, which I'm still waiting for, is that it stirs larger interest in the OST.
I actually prefer the Intrada rerecording. Even though that english horn is almost painfully flat in the opening titles, I like the sonic quality and larger size of the room better than the original.
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Posted: |
Feb 15, 2016 - 4:59 PM
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By: |
Jim Doherty
(Member)
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--Spymaster (Member)
"You see, I don't get it. On the one hand a lot of effort has clearly gone into replicating the original score exactly. The same tempo, the same orchestration, the same percussion instruments. Words like "precise" have been thrown around. But on the other, one of the most striking things about the score (and something Goldsmith was always quick/proud to point out) is that it is fully acoustic (this is not Hoosiers!!). What's the point of having a perfect percussion section if the rest of the orchestra is missing?"
JD: I have to agree with this viewpoint. I listened to the audio clips for this CD, and while some parts sound great (namely, the percussion), some of the parts, like the “brass” in “Crash Landing” are incredibly unreal. They sound like something out of a late-1980s Charles Band synth score, which just cheapens this magnificent, groundbreaking work by Goldsmith. This leads directly into my next opinion:
--RoryR (Member)
"You know, I had pretty much the same negative reaction to this project when John O'Callaghan first let me in on it, but I've had two months to think about it, so I want to ask everyone here a question that I hope I can get an honest answer to. Jerry Goldsmith was himself a certified electronics junkie. He had an elaborate home studio filled always with the latest gadgets, and he fully embraced them to the extent, as everyone knows, of actually using them in his movie scores. If Goldsmith were still alive, tomorrow he would be eighty-seven years old. If he were at that age still interested in re-recording one of his most famous scores so that it could be heard in the best sonics possible, it's not outside the laws of probability that he would choose to do exactly what John O'Callaghan has done with APES. So, be honest everybody, if Goldsmith were still alive and had done this CD, what would your reaction be then?"
JD: My reaction would STILL be the same. The “it’s not outside the laws of probability” idea that Goldsmith would want a synth re-creation of one of his greatest and groundbreaking orchestral scores is pure (and rather fanciful) conjecture. Goldsmith experimented with, and used, electronics when they came into being, as yet another “voice” to be used in his scores. However, I can’t recall any instance of him deciding to re-record any suites or themes on later recordings using synths instead of the instruments for which the score was originally written.
For all those Goldsmith completists out there, I’m spiritually still on your side. As many of you may know from my past posts, I am a Bernard Herrmann fanatic. If a well-done synth re-creation of the complete ENDLESS NIGHT (for instance) came out tomorrow, I’d order it in an instant (because I’m a Herrmann completist and I want that complete score), but I still would want the real thing and not be satisfied by the synth re-creation.
Some might apply the same RoryR reasoning to ENDLESS NIGHT and say, “Well, Herrmann always embraced electronics since THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL, and used them again in other scores such as SISTERS and IT'S ALIVE, and therefore we feel he might have gone along with a synthesized re-recording of the whole score,” and I just can’t believe that would be true.
Scores that were written for the orchestras and oddball instruments of the day (electric or acoustic), should be preserved in their original form. That’s what the composers had to work with at the time, and that’s what we should respect. We should not speculate on what this composer or that composer might have thought if he had written that score 40+ years later.
I send my best to those who made this new PLANET OF THE APES re-recording a reality. I truly admire your efforts, but I really do not admire your results. In your efforts to bring this score into the sonics of a modern age, I really think you have lost the emotionally visceral punch of the original orchestral performance from an earlier age.
Just one man’s opinion.
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Any idea of when this will be available on ITUNES?
Ford A. Thaxton
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Any idea of when this will be available on ITUNES?
Ford A. Thaxton
I believe Mr. O'Callaghan doesn't want to pay the licensing fees that that would require.
WTF?
You pay the same right you do on a CD Sale?
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Ford A. Thaxton
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Posted: |
Feb 15, 2016 - 7:40 PM
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By: |
RoryR
(Member)
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What's the point of having a perfect percussion section if the rest of the orchestra is missing?
Well, maybe there is no point other than the person hadn't the means to hire an entire orchestra. Are people with this attitude saying that if it can't be done with all instruments being "live," then no effort should be made at all? Has there been an effort to re-record this score with an orchestra in the past twenty years (and I'm not talking about suites or single cues done in a concert hall setting) by anyone anywhere on the planet? The answer is "NO!" (to quote Caesar in RISE) I don't understand the absolutism in this matter. No one is forcing you to buy this CD, or even listen to it, or even pay any attention to it what so ever, and my greatest hope for this release is that it brings greater attention to the score, interest in which has pretty much lain fallow for nearly twenty years until one fan actually writes an entire book about it, and that maybe, just maybe, plans are being made right now for a full orchestral re-recording, and, my greatest hope, a restoration of the original soundtrack session recordings -- if it's not too late.
Hopefully, I'll get this CD in the mail tomorrow and I plan a cue by cue critique -- the good, the bad and perhaps even the ugly.
You guys remind me of a scene from KELLY'S HEROES between Oddball and Moriarty, "What's with all the negative waves?"
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WTF?
You pay the same right you do on a CD Sale?
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Ford A. Thaxton
Well, I said this would be a WTF? release... But I think you should really ask John O'Callaghan yourself about this. His email address is: info@pithikosentertainment.com
Well, it makes no sense whatsoever not to make it available on ITUNES and other digital outlets.
It costs the same as selling it on CD.
Ford A. Thaxton
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Posted: |
Feb 16, 2016 - 2:04 AM
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By: |
Amer Zahid
(Member)
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What's the point of having a perfect percussion section if the rest of the orchestra is missing?
Well, maybe there is no point other than the person hadn't the means to hire an entire orchestra. Are people with this attitude saying that if it can't be done with all instruments being "live," then no effort should be made at all? Has there been an effort to re-record this score with an orchestra in the past twenty years (and I'm not talking about suites or single cues done in a concert hall setting) by anyone anywhere on the planet? The answer is "NO!" (to quote Caesar in RISE) I don't understand the absolutism in this matter. No one is forcing you to buy this CD, or even listen to it, or even pay any attention to it what so ever, and my greatest hope for this release is that it brings greater attention to the score, interest in which has pretty much lain fallow for nearly twenty years until one fan actually writes an entire book about it, and that maybe, just maybe, plans are being made right now for a full orchestral re-recording, and, my greatest hope, a restoration of the original soundtrack session recordings -- if it's not too late.
Hopefully, I'll get this CD in the mail tomorrow and I plan a cue by cue critique -- the good, the bad and perhaps even the ugly.
You guys remind me of a scene from KELLY'S HEROES between Oddball and Moriarty, "What's with all the negative waves?"
I'll quite agree with RoryR here. Even though I'm partial to full orchestral acoustic recordings. The scope of this particular project appears to be mostly a preservation and re-documentation of this incredible score by Jerry Goldsmith on a small budget scale. Its like one of those 4 piece quartet compilation albums we have seen with a medley of various cover themes that are put out as re-creations. Nobody complains about those and neither are comparisons made to the actual sessions/ albums when they are released. So, its surprising when a similar project which is actually using 'some original authentic instruments 'and using a synthesizer as a voice suddenly comes under a vicious attack in this thread. Some folks have warmly applauded the producers intentions and even ordered the set while others who have their own opinions and then those who have become a sort of thread lynch mob (you know who YOU are !) against RoryR and the album producer/writer need to back off now. Both sides have debated the merits and de-merits. If youre interested in this album by all means get it and enjoy it. If this is NOT your cup of tea then simply move on. But lets not be vicious and take pot shots at those who spent a labour of love on this project. The scope of the project was made clear in the first post and who are we to debate whether Goldsmith would have hated this project or not. As far I can tell Goldsmith was not even in favour of the ultimate Expanded editions we now get so often these days. Lets all be thankful.
RIP Jerry, you are still missed!
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Well, it makes no sense whatsoever not to make it available on ITUNES and other digital outlets.
It costs the same as selling it on CD.
Ford A. Thaxton
Yes, but wouldn't that be an additional cost for an additional license?
No, you just apply the license and you just pay them on whatever downloads you sell.
In the USA you have to go to either the publisher or HARRY FOX, internationally ITUNES,AMAZON,etc have to pay the publishers the fees.
It's major market and it's $$$ on the table for you.
Ford A. Thaxton
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Looking forward to this one. Samples sound great.
Ordered..............
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