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Posted: |
Mar 14, 2014 - 3:16 AM
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By: |
pp312
(Member)
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Of course, every snot nosed half-witted muttonhead knows that Lucilla, the sister of Commodus, attempted to have him assassinated and was exiled to Capri early in his reign. And every slobbering nincompoop knows that Marcia first poisoned Commodus and, when that didn't work, had his wrestling partner, Narcissus, strangle him to death in his bath.
Gee, this snot nosed half-witted slobbering muttonhead nincompoop didn't know any of those things, Ed. Thanks. 
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It doesnt matter to me that some here do not like S&S - Im sure some of their favorites might be deemed "shite" by others , too. To each his own-- but this mudslinging on films + their fans (and sometimes the music) seems to overstep the bounds of courtesy. Let's agree to disagree and not become nasty.
No offence is meant to anyone here, Phil.
The debate was whether the sort of film that S&S is is superior to the type of film that Barabbas is.
As regards the music, there's precious little discussion OF it on this thread so far.
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I'm wondering which new aspect of the moustachio-twirling stereotype villain-against-the-common-man I can now adopt, having gone from 'he who expects historical authenticity' to 'he who expects great art' in the minds of the 'honest down to earth' electorate.
Of course it has nothing to do with either authenticity or great art. It's a rip off of what's SUPPOSED to be a religious story. What it has 'to commend it' I'm foxed on.
We must never offend the honest punter who was dragged to this masterpiece at some impressionable age by his parents, against the hordes of generations of possibly more honest punters whose sensitivities are raped by the Hollywood hokum conveyor belt treatment of what they'd see as a sacred story. They don't matter at all. They're elitist, and probably played by Anthony Hopkins.
I'll need to take out my 'religious fanatic' Inquisition moustachio-twirling tongs for this next bout.
But the air-freshener is still needed no matter what I say.
However, Mario Nascimbene. He's notoriously absent from all this, as ever is music from the so-called 'music' side of the board. He used a particular musical slant on this score, and God forbid anyone should talk music. (Did I say God forbid? Heaven forbid!)
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Excepting maybe 'Son of God' and that companion series 'The Bible' which by all accounts is just dreadful. Even the christians hate it. Ha!
I saw a few short parts of that 'Bible' thingy, and frankly it was bad. I mean, it was bad.
I happened to switch on during a scene where Joseph and Mary were returning from Egypt, and they pass a field of crucified victims on crosses. The baby Jesus looks up at the bodies and a look of trying to comprehend crosses his face. I thought, 'That scene, every shot even, is a direct theft from Stevens' 'The Greatest Story Ever Told', just lifted, plagiarised.
I thought no more about it, then I was reading 'Remote Controller's' TV review column in 'Private Eye' magazine, where, after shredding the whole series more or less, he said, 'Sometimes there are hints of something greater'.... and he cited THAT scene!!!!!!
The whole thing was on some other scale as yet unknown to human depravity.
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It's artistic licence. Barabbas has a clever script, but not an obscure one. He says himself that he must 'surrender to the darkness' each time, because he's not the kind of optimist who can just believe in the light straight off. Like most people. The whole screenplay is descent and darkness followed by ascent and light, time and again. What better than an eclipse to highlight that, and that's why they ran with it in the film? The possibility astronomically was a Maguffin.
Once you might have assumed that a certain quota of an audience would have experienced that cycle for themselves. They'd be moved and feel 'this was my story, in my own life'. Now you can assume nothing.
The great gulf fixed between the tacky publicity campaigns and trailers for these films, and the actual serious CONTENT is the problem. 'Roll up and see the spectacle', the rest is up to you.
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Posted: |
Mar 15, 2014 - 10:28 PM
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By: |
philiperic
(Member)
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On the other hand, S&Sheba is a bollocks of a nonsense, based on no actual biblical story, a potboiler. I've never been able to sit through it. The Queen of Sheba (unless you're a Coptic) did no more than visit Solomon on a diplomatic trade mission. That's all she did. She didn't wiggle ridiculously in a '50s bikini in a sideshow hoofer fertility dance. Nor did she have a religious encounter of the fakest kind after nookie with old Sol. And the thing with the shields and the crevasse is absurd.
You're right, the whole thing is super cheesy. But that "thing with the shields and the crevasse" is the only thing worth seeing.
In addition to the Biblical tale, I found this information on the Queen of Sheba and her visit to King Solomon -
the Imperial Family of Ethopia claims its origin directly from the offspring of the Queen of Sheba by King Solomon ...
according to the Kebra Negast(The Glory of Kings) - an ancient compilation of Ethopian legends, Solomon is said to have seduced the Queen of Sheba(aka Mekeda) and sired her son who became Menelik I , the first Emperor of Ethopia .
the tradition that the Queen of Sheba was a ruler of Ethopia + visited King Solomon in Ancient Israel is supported by 1st Century Roman(from Jewish) historian, Josephus, who identifies her as "Queen of Egypt & Ethopia".
Josephus is also one of the extra Biblical sources that DeMille cites for his screenplay of THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. I wonder where he found an actual source for the central triangle of TTC between Moses, Neferteri and Ramses. Or maybe he used "dramtic license"?
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the Imperial Family of Ethopia claims its origin directly from the offspring of the Queen of Sheba by King Solomon ...
according to the Kebra Negast(The Glory of Kings) - an ancient compilation of Ethopian legends, Solomon is said to have seduced the Queen of Sheba(aka Mekeda) and sired her son who became Menelik I , the first Emperor of Ethopia .
the tradition that the Queen of Sheba was a ruler of Ethopia + visited King Solomon in Ancient Israel is supported by 1st Century Roman(from Jewish) historian, Josephus, who identifies her as "Queen of Egypt & Ethopia".
Josephus is also one of the extra Biblical sources that DeMille cites for his screenplay of THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. I wonder where he found an actual source for the central triangle of TTC between Moses, Neferteri and Ramses. Or maybe he used "dramtic license"?
Yes, that's why I said, 'unless you're a Coptic'. The legends of Ethiopia. But even they, maybe ESPECIALLY they, would be offended by the notion that she tried to corrupt him with a '50s fertility dance.
Josephus' 'Antiquities of the Jews' is what DeMille claims he used.
You'll find there the early legends about Moses being a general, who conquered Ethiopia for the Pharaoh using an army with baskets of snakes, and then marrying the Ethiopian Queen and bringing her back to Egypt. DeMille used that in his opening scenes.
These legends are also in many old Jewish commentaries, and exist also in occult and alchemical literature through the middle ages. They're just legends. DeMille is no benchmark anyhow...
BUT ... whether you go with the legend or not, you need to respect the material. You can do stuff with Sheba's personal life. but you can't do stuff with the Temple being wrecked after a cheesecake dance.
By a real coincidence, I wasn't seeking it, yesterday I found an old book lying around, called 'Yul', a bio of Yul Brynner from Rock, his son. I may dig it out again and give HIS insight into his dad's attitude to Vidor's product.
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Here we go:
"Before settling down as a millionaire, Yul first had to make 'Solomon and Sheba'. Here, for the first time since the beginning of his stardom, was a piece of unmistakable crap, on an aesthetic par with Steve Reeves as Hercules. Just two years after 'The Ten Commandments', the zenith of the genre, came this nadir. Gina Lollobrigida, with a ruby in her navel, had all the sex appeal of a fist. George Sanders, in his sixties, appeared so feeble in battle that he turned to camera as if soliciting comfort from the audience. And Yul, as the young Solomon with Tyrone Power's hairstyle (to match previously filmed sequences), spent most of his screen time trying to keep a straight face. Both Michael Chekhov, and Cecil B. DeMille had died, mercifully, before 'Solomon and Sheba' was released.
The experience of renouncing the values and loyalties that had guided him for two decades was not an easy one. At least he was out of debt and putting aside a nest egg that would allow him to become the director he always wanted to be, while feeling secure that he could guarantee his son, and even his grandchildren, a college education...."
.....................'YUL: The Man Who Would be King' by Rock Brynner, Chap. 7 'Gypsy Millionaire', Pg. 120 Fontana 1989.
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Posted: |
Mar 16, 2014 - 5:31 PM
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By: |
pp312
(Member)
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"Before settling down as a millionaire, Yul first had to make 'Solomon and Sheba'. Here, for the first time since the beginning of his stardom, was a piece of unmistakable crap, on an aesthetic par with Steve Reeves as Hercules. Just two years after 'The Ten Commandments', the zenith of the genre, came this nadir. Gina Lollobrigida, with a ruby in her navel, had all the sex appeal of a fist."
I'd have to disagree with most of this. S & S may have been no B-H but it was far from Hercules (well, I sat through it, and I would never have sat through Hercules). I wouldn't agree that TTC was a zenith of anything much either, though, to my everlasting puzzlement, a lot of people seem to regard it with affection. Hell, I wouldn't even agree that Lollobrigida had no sex appeal, though she had none for me. No, sorry Rock, can't go along with you on any of that.
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