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 Posted:   Mar 19, 2014 - 12:31 AM   
 By:   BillCarson   (Member)

did somebody say julie newmar?? i would have left Lollo gasping against that plastic rock if id known the naked apache catwoman was on the next set!!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 19, 2014 - 12:31 AM   
 By:   BillCarson   (Member)

good juicy thread boys. solomon and sheba - who wouldve guessed that.

 
 Posted:   Mar 19, 2014 - 5:26 PM   
 By:   CH-CD   (Member)



I never knew this film concerned the Book of Daniel. It sounds pretty bad --I might have a copy somewhere that I've never watched .
In the cast list, there are no actors listed playing Daniel's three friends - are you sure that the fiery furnace scene is in this?


I know the three men aren't listed in the IMDB cast list, and it's many years since I last saw this, so, I can't remember what they're called in the movie, but, the fiery furnace bit IS definitely in it.

Here is a section from one of the IMDB reviews that mentions the scene.....

"Daniel is favored by King Nebuchadnezzar but his son (played by Michael Ansara) is jealous of his influence over Dad and decides to strike at him where it hurts the most i.e. persuading the King to order the (previously-tolerated) worshipping of gods other than those of Babylon as forbidden. When the Holy Man keeps at his daily piety (easily detected by the fuming Ansara), he is thrown into prison and left at the mercy of a bunch of lions that are unleashed upon him; arriving the next day and jokingly querying whether there will be enough of him to be identified, the King's son is shocked to find Daniel is still alive (the latter simply walks out of the cell, leaving Ansara to pick up his jaw from the floor)! The young man is adamant, however, and he throws three other Jews who have dared defy the restricted practice of religion, into a furnace this time around…and, once again, he has to witness their unscathed – and nonchalant – exit from the flames (though the special-effects in this scene leave a lot to be desired)! "

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 19, 2014 - 10:21 PM   
 By:   philiperic   (Member)

I never knew this film concerned the Book of Daniel. It sounds pretty bad --I might have a copy somewhere that I've never watched .
In the cast list, there are no actors listed playing Daniel's three friends - are you sure that the fiery furnace scene is in this?


I know the three men aren't listed in the IMDB cast list, and it's many years since I last saw this, so, I can't remember what they're called in the movie, but, the fiery furnace bit IS definitely in it.

Here is a section from one of the IMDB reviews that mentions the scene.....

"Daniel is favored by King Nebuchadnezzar but his son (played by Michael Ansara) is jealous of his influence over Dad and decides to strike at him where it hurts the most i.e. persuading the King to order the (previously-tolerated) worshipping of gods other than those of Babylon as forbidden. When the Holy Man keeps at his daily piety (easily detected by the fuming Ansara), he is thrown into prison and left at the mercy of a bunch of lions that are unleashed upon him; arriving the next day and jokingly querying whether there will be enough of him to be identified, the King's son is shocked to find Daniel is still alive (the latter simply walks out of the cell, leaving Ansara to pick up his jaw from the floor)! The young man is adamant, however, and he throws three other Jews who have dared defy the restricted practice of religion, into a furnace this time around…and, once again, he has to witness their unscathed – and nonchalant – exit from the flames (though the special-effects in this scene leave a lot to be desired)! "


So I did scan the info at imdb and missed this bit about the fiery furnace -- the film doesnt sound like something worth tracking down anyway. But thanks for finding it.
The 3 friends of Daniel have Jewish names to begin with and only later are given Babylonian surnames , i.e. Shadrach,etc.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 22, 2014 - 5:25 PM   
 By:   philiperic   (Member)

Spoiler Alert -

I spent three hours this week rewatching SOLOMON AND SHEBA on the US DVD as well as checking out the Region 2 version. The US release has a much superior picture(anamophically enhanced for widescreen) to the British, although the UK version has a trailer(where you can clearly see Tyrone Power in a battle scene) as well as more language options including Italian( on which you can hear La Lollo speak her lines in her native Italian).

Rewatching the whole movie on a widescreen tv reminds me of when I first saw it as a child in Roadshow. Produced in Technirama 70mm , the film has a sharp and very colorful palette that has held up over the past 55 years. The original 6 track stereo sound was not apparent on my BR player - it seemed as if it had been modified to a 2 track stereo, unfortunately.

The film begins promisingly with a narrator comparing the war between Egypt and Israel in Solomon's reign to present day(1959)conflicts. Young Solomon( a clean shaven Yul) comes to the aid of his older brother , the warrior Adonijah(George Sanders) in the current skirmish with Egyptian forces (headed by Pharoah(David Farrar) and Sheba's manservant , Baltor(Harry Andrews)).When informed of King David's impending death, Adonijah proclaims himself King. Back in Jerusalem, Solomon comforts his dying father and upon his brother's return, he learns that David has had a vision from God to chose Solomon as heir. Thus the rivalry between the brothers begins.

In the meantime, the Queen of Sheba(who had a bad run-in with Adonijah) plots with the Pharoah on how to bring about the downfall of the new King of Israel, i.e. via seduction. We are soon treated to the Queen of Sheba and her colorful retinue arriving in Israel with many treasures presented to Solomon ( a scene reminiscent of Moses' presenting Ethopia to Sethi in THE TEN COMMANDMENTS). Sheba says she is there to learn from Solomon( a bearded Yul) on how to be a wiser ruler - among other scenes , we see the fabled "splitting of an infant " - very well done.

But soon Sheba turns up the heat - her costumes become increasingly seductive. Solomon is torn between his faith and honor(symbolized by the good Abishag(Marisa Pavan)) and his desire for the forbidden love of the Pagan Sheba. Utimately she forces him to chose by holding a orgiastic ritual/dance on the plains outside the city(i.e. a soundstage). Why this sequence was done indoors (was Gina afraid of frostbite?)isnt clear but it only adds to the unreality of it. I remember it was this sequence and Gina's many scanty costumes that received major coverage in periodicals of the day, including LIFE. Up to this point, there is a modicum of spiritual message in the film. After this scene and the destruction of the temple / the death of Abishag , it is difficult to take it seriously. (and yes, there was an intermission as mentioned before at this point - leaving about 45 minutes for part two)

Sheba is repentant(and pregnant) when Solomon must leave to defend his country against Egypt et al. Her prayer to Jehovah to follow his teachings and to spare Solomon works as all the soldiers who had deserted the King return. Then we have the BIG battle with shining sheilds - a spectacular but pretty unbelievable fiction. But Adonijah has again proclaimed himself King and ordered the populace to stone Sheba. Solomon returns triumphant , kills Adonijah,and Jehovah heals the dying Sheba who must leave Solomon to keep her covenant with God. Sheba tells Solomon - "If God grants us a son, then for the first time Sheba shall have a king and he shall walk in the way of the Lord God Jehovah"!! And Solomon says as the tranformed Sheba leaves "For his anger is but for a moment but his love is forever - Weeping may tarry for a night but joy cometh in the morning".

I still enjoy this film despite(or is it because?)of its shortcomings. This was begun as a film starring Tyrone Power who died after filming about three quarters - today CGI might have worked to finish the rest using a double. Yul Brynner changed the whole tone of the film - his persona is dramatically different to Power's- but I dont agree with Yul's son's assessment of this film - Brynner gives an acceptable if somewhat tenative performance. But it is Gina who excells as the devious but human Queen - she makes a lot of unbelievable emotions seem from the heart, IMO. King Vidor the director later publicly stated his original intentions were lost or misguided in the released version - without Power, the film was not the emotional drama he had hoped it to be. Somewhere in some vault, perhaps in Spain or Hollywood , most of the Power footage lies - now probably faded or deteriorated - never to be seen.

Still I hope that a Blu-Ray will preserve the roadshow Technirama 70mm cut - in all its magnificent malifecence!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 23, 2014 - 7:25 AM   
 By:   Joe Caps   (Member)

Its too bad the us dvd does not have the trailer, the laserdisc had it.

Also bad is during the big battle scene, you used to be able to clearly see a jet flying over in the corner.
the widescreen versions blow up the frame so the jet is out of the picture.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 23, 2014 - 10:56 AM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

.....Also bad is during the big battle scene, you used to be able to clearly see a jet flying over in the corner.....


These are the kinds of things that once made movies---even great movies---fallible and human, I think.

You once had the feeling that films were made by real human beings, usually trying their best to deliver a perfect entertainment, but often slipping up and making, or including, mistakes---in the technology, plotting, performances or direction. SOLOMON AND SHEBA is one of those many films that attempts, but fails, in many areas of filmmaking---but like most from this earlier era, has elements that remain entertaining.

Filmmakers from the earlier ages knew they had a limited budget (at any level of filmmaking)--and a limited schedule---to create the proposed vision and they did what they could to work within those parameters. There was rarely a sugar-daddy CEO waiting in his office to give them another $100 million to complete their vision for the good of the studio. The "Studio Executive in Charge-of-Production" knew that the other 45 studio releases of the year might make up for the losses on this one.

Somehow---if you were an avid moviegoer then---you excused any or all screw-ups and understood that at least they had tried.

Today's films seem quite sterile and cold---and technology (and budgets and time) allows them to be wiped clean of any error or humanity. It's almost as if they are no longer made by man but assembled by a cadre of Detroit industrial robotic machines.

Even in the infrequent romantic kinds of films today there is very little warmth at all.

Many decades ago, one of my special friends was a highly-acclaimed creator who worked quite regularly on features with early director, Henry King---mostly at Fox. He told me that King had a motto that kept them very assured about their filmmaking. King would say to them, "If you're going to make a mistake, make a big one!" This attitude allowed everyone on the team to try new things, use new approaches, and, yes---make mistakes along the way---mistakes which often made it into the final film.

I really miss that exciting, pioneering, "seat-of-your-pants", filmmaking ethos of the first 50-60 years of the film business. In many ways those films seem cruder, but fresher, than today's canned entertainments.

 
 Posted:   Mar 23, 2014 - 11:07 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

That's what the Arabs say, Manderley.

Every Persian rug has a deliberate flaw woven into it somewhere. The idea is that, since Mohammed (PBOH) was a rug-maker, no-one should ever make a rug that is PERFECT, as that would be equalling him and blasphemous.

Perfection is the enemy of art.

Without the grit in the pearl, there's nothing to 'stick' in the mind. Like a 'fixer' in photographic plates.

I think of many modern films as though they're encased in a sort of 'condom' of digital sheen and perfection, that allows them to slip lubricated in one ear and out the other without registering or 'fixing' on the way.

In some ways its a different artform, as theatre and radio are different to TV, or film.

 
 Posted:   Mar 23, 2014 - 11:45 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Modern films suffer even more than the older films simply because there are more films floating about in the set of all films with identical structures. How do you make the proverbial original film that's never been seen before that will rain pennies (make that dollars PLEASE) from Heaven?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 23, 2014 - 12:34 PM   
 By:   philiperic   (Member)

Its too bad the us dvd does not have the trailer, the laserdisc had it.

Also bad is during the big battle scene, you used to be able to clearly see a jet flying over in the corner.
the widescreen versions blow up the frame so the jet is out of the picture.


I didnt know about the jet in the background -- Ill have to check my VHS P/S version to see it.

There are many "errors" in S+S - the worst I noticed again was the first shot of the dead Abishag - she lies dead w. her eyes closed - then as Solomon enters the scene, we see Abishag with her eyes wide open - lying in a different position (perhaps the 1st shot came from the original shooting of the scene w Power). Then as Yul lifts her up into his arms, poor Marisa Pavan struggles mightily not to blink but unfortunately she does . There are numerous continuity errors as a result of combining footage from both "versions".

The jet plane in S&S is reminscent of the car traveling in the background in the opening shots of SHANE - it has since been digitally removed.

How right you are , Manderley - we have lost the human touch in many - if not most - films made today.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 23, 2014 - 2:36 PM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

While all these discussion threads tend to wander -- that's part of the fun -- I cannot help but notice the almost complete absence of interest in the music of Mario Nascimbene. Does that say something? I can be of no help. I remember absolutely nothing of this picture except for the striking, if improbable, business of mirrored shields repelling a cavalry charge.

In the spirit of wandering, I can mention that George Sanders's entertaining Memoirs of a Professional Cad (1960) dwells extensively on the making of this movie, probably because the awful experience was still fresh when Sanders was writing. He liked and respected Tyrone Power and seems to have been deeply disturbed by the waste of the latter's talent, and life, on a lousy movie. In this episode, at least, Sanders displays a heartfelt sincerity quite different from his usual persona.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 23, 2014 - 3:32 PM   
 By:   Jim Doherty   (Member)

I've been driving myself crazy for several days trying to match up the music from the LP and CDs to the movie, to find out what's what, what exactly the LP tracks are, what's on the LP that isn't on the CDs, and what music isn't represented on the LP or the CDs (and there's a lot!).

So far, I've found out that the music in the movie is kind of a mess, with many cues severely edited. The UA LP does indeed provide some music that is not on the Legend CDs. The Soundtrack Library CD is also a mess. The "Overture" and "Intermission" are just suites cobbled together out of cues from elsewhere in the score. Some cues are put where they don't belong, or are mislabeled. So, in the long run, that CD's longer length is mostly due to repeated cues.

There's a great piece that's almost completely dialed out in the film, when Solomon talks to God after the death of David. It IS on the LP, as well as the CDs, but it is incorrectly listed as "Death of David" on the Legend CDs.

The UA LP provides some music that is not on the Legend CDs.

Also, the earlier Legend CD that pairs the score with THE VIKINGS apparently has the original ending. It appears that in the final editing of the film, the decision was made to switch the End Title and End Cast music. I'll comment further on this in a future post, after I've finished my headache-inducing research. When I'm done, I should be able to provide a list of cues in the film, plus where they can (or cannot) be found on the LP and CDs.

There's probably a good twenty minutes of music in the film that is not available on the LP or CDs, which is really too bad; this is just a wonderful Nascimbene score.

 
 Posted:   Mar 23, 2014 - 3:55 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Jim, you win!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 23, 2014 - 4:13 PM   
 By:   philiperic   (Member)

I've been driving myself crazy for several days trying to match up the music from the LP and CDs to the movie, to find out what's what, what exactly the LP tracks are, what's on the LP that isn't on the CDs, and what music isn't represented on the LP or the CDs (and there's a lot!).

So far, I've found out that the music in the movie is kind of a mess, with many cues severely edited. The UA LP does indeed provide some music that is not on the Legend CDs. The Soundtrack Library CD is also a mess. The "Overture" and "Intermission" are just suites cobbled together out of cues from elsewhere in the score. Some cues are put where they don't belong, or are mislabeled. So, in the long run, that CD's longer length is mostly due to repeated cues.

There's a great piece that's almost completely dialed out in the film, when Solomon talks to God after the death of David. It IS on the LP, as well as the CDs, but it is incorrectly listed as "Death of David" on the Legend CDs.

The UA LP provides some music that is not on the Legend CDs.

Also, the earlier Legend CD that pairs the score with THE VIKINGS apparently has the original ending. It appears that in the final editing of the film, the decision was made to switch the End Title and End Cast music. I'll comment further on this in a future post, after I've finished my headache-inducing research. When I'm done, I should be able to provide a list of cues in the film, plus where they can (or cannot) be found on the LP and CDs.

There's probably a good twenty minutes of music in the film that is not available on the LP or CDs, which is really too bad; this is just a wonderful Nascimbene score.


Thanks for your work on this score - it certainly deserves to be sorted out - I always felt that the LP despite the deluxe foldout cover was curious in having no track listings and the selections were in random order. If you are able to figure it all out, bravo - it will be quite a feat with the LP plus 3 differing cd versions .

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 23, 2014 - 4:25 PM   
 By:   philiperic   (Member)

While all these discussion threads tend to wander -- that's part of the fun -- I cannot help but notice the almost complete absence of interest in the music of Mario Nascimbene. Does that say something? I can be of no help. I remember absolutely nothing of this picture except for the striking, if improbable, business of mirrored shields repelling a cavalry charge.

In the spirit of wandering, I can mention that George Sanders's entertaining Memoirs of a Professional Cad (1960) dwells extensively on the making of this movie, probably because the awful experience was still fresh when Sanders was writing. He liked and respected Tyrone Power and seems to have been deeply disturbed by the waste of the latter's talent, and life, on a lousy movie. In this episode, at least, Sanders displays a heartfelt sincerity quite different from his usual persona.


I read Sanders' autobiography last year and I do remember how saddened he was by his friend's death and the difficulty all concerned had finishing the film without him. And he was heartfelt.

But I dont think he tried to blame this "lousy movie " for Power's death. Power had had medical concerns before he started filming S+S and had ignored these cardiovascular issues- which had they been addressed earlier(his father also died of a heart attack in 1931) might have saved his life. Power was also a heavy smoker like his friend, Errol Flynn - which contributed to their early deaths - Power at 44 and Flynn at 50.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2014 - 4:54 AM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

While all these discussion threads tend to wander -- that's part of the fun -- I cannot help but notice the almost complete absence of interest in the music of Mario Nascimbene. Does that say something? I can be of no help. I remember absolutely nothing of this picture except for the striking, if improbable, business of mirrored shields repelling a cavalry charge.


Just a small detail of no importance, John. The shields don't repel the cavalry charge, but rather blind the chargers so that they fail to see the crevasse in front of them. I point this out purely to emphasise what you've already noted: that we have no interest in the music of Mario Nascimbene. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2014 - 10:37 AM   
 By:   roadshowfan   (Member)

I've been driving myself crazy for several days trying to match up the music from the LP and CDs to the movie, to find out what's what, what exactly the LP tracks are, what's on the LP that isn't on the CDs, and what music isn't represented on the LP or the CDs (and there's a lot!).

So far, I've found out that the music in the movie is kind of a mess, with many cues severely edited. The UA LP does indeed provide some music that is not on the Legend CDs. The Soundtrack Library CD is also a mess. The "Overture" and "Intermission" are just suites cobbled together out of cues from elsewhere in the score. Some cues are put where they don't belong, or are mislabeled. So, in the long run, that CD's longer length is mostly due to repeated cues.

There's a great piece that's almost completely dialed out in the film, when Solomon talks to God after the death of David. It IS on the LP, as well as the CDs, but it is incorrectly listed as "Death of David" on the Legend CDs.

The UA LP provides some music that is not on the Legend CDs.

Also, the earlier Legend CD that pairs the score with THE VIKINGS apparently has the original ending. It appears that in the final editing of the film, the decision was made to switch the End Title and End Cast music. I'll comment further on this in a future post, after I've finished my headache-inducing research. When I'm done, I should be able to provide a list of cues in the film, plus where they can (or cannot) be found on the LP and CDs.

There's probably a good twenty minutes of music in the film that is not available on the LP or CDs, which is really too bad; this is just a wonderful Nascimbene score.


Like many fellow message boarders, I wish Jim every success in getting to grips with the content of Solomon & Sheba's soundtrack incarnations! Regarding the Arnold contributions, mentioned elsewhere, he is listed three times on the ASCAP cue sheet and provided the following cues "Gifts", "Sheba's encampment" and "Candle scene", all of which add up to just short of 6 minutes.

Jim, if you'd like a scanned copy of the cue sheet to assist (or confuse even further), let me have your email and I'll gladly oblige.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2014 - 10:37 AM   
 By:   roadshowfan   (Member)

DP

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2014 - 10:37 AM   
 By:   roadshowfan   (Member)

DP

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2014 - 10:37 AM   
 By:   roadshowfan   (Member)

DP

 
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