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 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 12:40 PM   
 By:   Khan   (Member)

Thanks MV! I actually just found the post on Intrada's Forum where Roger confirms it as well: http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=38441#p38441

Any idea about Horner's Aliens, Goldsmith's Total Recall, or Goldsmith's Omen trilogy?


I thought Aliens was pretty much complete already?

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 12:43 PM   
 By:   Oscarilbo   (Member)


Varese does not own the rights to the Matrix sequels at all (Warner Brothers released the scores themselves) , and we don't know if they own the rights to the first one in perpetuity or not.

But I agree some sort of write-in campaign could be a good idea. Maybe we could pick one title a quarter and organize some kind of write-in to Varese about that title throughout the quarter?


Good to know about Matrix... and yes, that could work, or maybe a small group of titles, and let them inform us which one would work for them.

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 1:01 PM   
 By:   The Thing   (Member)

Surely licencing out titles to the other labels that want to release a CD will make Varese more money than sitting on them doing nothing?

There's going to come a time in a few years where they may never be released on CD by anyone, and become download only.

Even if Varese re-issued expansions as downloads only, wouldn't a limited run of popular titles by other labels sell out fairly quickly? In which case, this may not dent sales too much of a download release by Varese in the future...

Can't any negotiations be made with them, similar to the recent breakthroughs with the big studios?

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 1:31 PM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

I think the problem is that while it is certainly POSSIBLE for Varese to license out a score to another label, they simply have to date shown absolutely no interest in doing so.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 1:35 PM   
 By:   eggerty31   (Member)

I do find it odd that Varese are sitting on all these scores and seemingly want to do nothing with them. Look at how well the 80s scores are selling from Intrada, La-La Land, and others do; Varese have some big name scores they are holding on to.

Varese's club releases are always a varied mix of film scores usually always contain some little-known but wonderful scores, but I do wish they would revist some of their back catalogue.

If they are unable or unwilling to revisit these then why not license them out. I'm sure La-La Land or Intrada would love got get their paws on these titles and us listeners would love to be able to buy them.

Come on Varese.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 1:35 PM   
 By:   Nicholas_DW   (Member)

We need some more unlimited Deluxe Editions.

This is all.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 2:10 PM   
 By:   ScottDS   (Member)

If they are unable or unwilling to revisit these then why not license them out. I'm sure La-La Land or Intrada would love got get their paws on these titles and us listeners would love to be able to buy them.

I would LOVE for this to happen. Call me hopelessly naive but the fact that MV hasn't chimed in and said, "It's impossible!" could be viewed as a positive. (Again, the keyword is "naive.") smile

It's like asking for an expanded Star Trek title five years ago: "It's Paramount so don't hold your breath." Things change.

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 3:05 PM   
 By:   Scott M (Oldsmith)   (Member)

It would be great to have ANY kind of expansion on the "28 minute" CDs of those years. Many of those scores just aren't well represented because of the running times. Some great scores are being shortchanged. But, whatcha gonna do?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 3:08 PM   
 By:   Aggelos   (Member)


Michael Kamen - 1990 - Die Hard 2
Basil Poledouris - 1993 - Robocop 3
Basil Poledouris - 1997 - Starship Troopers
Leonard Rosenman - 1990 - Robocop 2
Alan Silvestri - 1990 - Predator 2
Alan Silvestri - 1997 - Volcano


I would have loved to see the afore-mentioned release by LaLaLand.....
How come Varese got perpetual rights? I mean they plan to own theses titles for a hundred of years and stay like sitting ducks doin' nothing about them?



What about the following? Is still Varese holding them tight? Because it would be superlative to have them released by LaLaLand some day....
http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=disco&id=27

http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=disco&id=50

http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=disco&id=117

http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=disco&id=121

http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=disco&id=176

http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=disco&id=197

http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=disco&id=507

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 3:26 PM   
 By:   TM2-Megatron   (Member)

I've seen a few mentions of Varese "beating [other labels] to the punch" when it came to acquiring certain ones, though personally I can't see that happening for the entirety of their huge catalogue. Maybe they're the first label offered the rights in some cases? Maybe someone who knows for sure will come around, although it is a shame that the company most unwilling to give full treatment to the more modern fan-favourites in their catalogue also seems to be the best label at actually acquiring so many of those titles. This is one reason why perpetuity rights in general kind of irk me, even if it's simply (as it is in this case) perpetuity rights to said album on a specific media; in this case, CD. It's not like we're going to get a physical replacement for CDs in the near future (or perhaps ever) given what happened to the last 2 contenders for that spot, so we're pretty much stuck with Varese.

Perhaps when those scores are a few decades older they'll get better treatment, lol.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 3:29 PM   
 By:   Shock-Wave   (Member)

Great thread Jason. I was thinking outload and contacting Varese via FB may not be effective. But what about a FB page dedicated to our wishlist Varese expanded releases.

Just a novice making a suggestion. Which I don't do that often to protect myself wink

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 4:09 PM   
 By:   ryankeaveney   (Member)

Varese is a business and should definitely listen to their customers (all 20 of them here, apparently). But, just to repeat — they are a BUSINESS. Why it makes sense to anyone here for them to release an expanded EXECUTIVE DECISION when the first album probably sold 500 copies, I can't explain.

On the other hand, if we're making suggestions for how to put Varese out of business (and this thread sure seems like it!), why not a complete 5-disc U.S. MARSHALLS?

Besides, Varese is also in the business of releasing NEW scores. 20 years ago they were all a film score freak could count on. Don't believe me? Look at those CDs piled up on the shelves — how many of those burgundy spines seem like major moneymakers?

Now they're being painted as pure evil soundtrack overlords, sitting on a cache of gems. I don't think that's fair.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 4:19 PM   
 By:   JamesSouthall   (Member)

I do find it odd that Varese are sitting on all these scores and seemingly want to do nothing with them. Look at how well the 80s scores are selling from Intrada, La-La Land, and others do; Varese have some big name scores they are holding on to.


It's a great irony I guess that if Intrada put out some of these things, they'd sell a thousand copies overnight from their website, but when Varese actually did release them, in retail shops all over the world, for a lower price, they sold less than a thousand copies.

You want to know how much money they made on Starship Troopers? Google an old interview with Robert Townson about it. It was extremely expensive to make (recorded with two entirely different orchestras or something, so two lots of reuse were payable) and barely anyone bought it.

The soundtrack market is already so saturated. Varese flooding it with a load of expanded versions of things that already have perfectly adequate albums could only happen if it came at the expense of some other albums. I'd rather they continued their practice of releasing a lot of brand new scores (which is an incredibly risky business!) and through their Club releases, continue to offer a mixture of previously-unreleased gems (and on the whole they do release riskier titles there than most of the labels, the soon-departing FSM excepted) and expanded versions of things that actually need it.

Without extending too far into hyperbole, I think it's fair to say that without Varese Sarabande, we'd all have a hell of a lot less film music to enjoy - not only through the releases they have put out that nobody else would ever have gambled on (it's staggering just what a high proportion of my soundtrack collection has those maroon spines Ryan mentioned), but also because they paved the way for all the others who have come (and in some cases gone) since.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 4:38 PM   
 By:   Michael24   (Member)

On the other hand, if we're making suggestions for how to put Varese out of business (and this thread sure seems like it!), why not a complete 5-disc U.S. MARSHALLS?

An expanded version would be nice. I don't need it complete, just expanded so that I can at least get the music from the climactic cargo ship fight between Tommy Lee Jones and Wesley Snipes. A few other tracks here and there, but mostly that set piece. If that had been on the soundtrack, I'd be content. But it wasn't, so I'm not. big grin

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 4:49 PM   
 By:   orion_mk3   (Member)

20 years ago they were all a film score freak could count on. Don't believe me? Look at those CDs piled up on the shelves — how many of those burgundy spines seem like major moneymakers?

Now they're being painted as pure evil soundtrack overlords, sitting on a cache of gems. I don't think that's fair.


I agree.

I'd love for any number of their releases to be longer, but given the conditions at the time it wasn't possible, and they were the only ones willing to release a lot of great scores. Who knows what kind of convoluted agreements went on behind the scenes?

If it weren't for Varese all I'd have from a lot of my favorite scores would be the end credits on a cassette tape, and for that I'm willing to cut them a little slack.

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 5:03 PM   
 By:   TM2-Megatron   (Member)

I'd love for any number of their releases to be longer, but given the conditions at the time it wasn't possible, and they were the only ones willing to release a lot of great scores. Who knows what kind of convoluted agreements went on behind the scenes?

I think everyone can accept that. But "at the time" is the key phrase there. Times change, and so do markets; and I think this thread is more about the present than Varese's history. And what James Southall said is true; if Intrada or LLL were to release expanded or complete versions of quite a few of the scores mentioned so far in this thread, they'd probably sell very well. The original Varese releases may've been more widely available and cheaper, but for better or worse, thanks to the present "golden age" of extensive film music releases, those kind of discs are no longer what a lot of soundtrack aficionados really expect (of those which are still easily available).

If Varese is unwilling, then perhaps they can still benefit from it, but let another label do the bulk of the work. There's certainly nothing wrong with doing business with Intrada or LLL, both of which have proven themselves willing and able to tackle things that Varese probably wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole right now. If Varese really isn't planning to make use of those things they own perpetuity rights to, why not license some of them out and make something off them, while letting another label take the chance? Even if just as an experiment to start, they could do this with 2 or 3 scores and see what happens.

The recent thread someone started here complaining of how "dull" modern movie music was comes to mind, as well. There's certainly a lot of people who disagree with that sentiment, but a lot do seem to feel that way and the releases of older film scores are the only reason they're still in the game at all. Varese's current strategy of focusing primarily on new scores certainly isn't going to entice any of them to be very regular customers.

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 5:42 PM   
 By:   Trent B.   (Member)

It would be great to have ANY kind of expansion on the "28 minute" CDs of those years. Many of those scores just aren't well represented because of the running times. Some great scores are being shortchanged. But, whatcha gonna do?

Indeed. I'd really love a complete release for Small Soldiers, The Abyss and Volcano...but sadly it may not happen.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 6:41 PM   
 By:   Kevin Costigan   (Member)

Dunno if it would do any good, but what if every single one of us signed a petition and sent it to Varese asking that they sub license their catalogue to other labels so that the music may go into the hands of people who would really value it and that they could profit from it as Sony and Warner has thus far. If there's enough voice and money to back it up, Varese will cave. Let it begin now!

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 9:09 PM   
 By:   David Sones (Allardyce)   (Member)

But what is MOST important to me on this subject is the fact that Varese does NOT own Psycho II in perpetuity, and that pleases me. smile

This list doesn't say that, in fact. It only states the ones that have been confirmed that they DO. I have no idea if they have Psycho II in perpetuity or not! Maybe MV, Roger, or Doug could find out.


Varese does not own Psycho II in perpetuity. I have confirmed this with knowledgeable fellows in the industry. I'm the guy who's been pining for a complete release of Psycho II louder and longer than most, so you can trust my facts on this. smile

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2012 - 11:18 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

But what is MOST important to me on this subject is the fact that Varese does NOT own Psycho II in perpetuity, and that pleases me. smile

Bear in mind that during the early '90s, Varese licensed many MCA LPs and premiered them on CD: "Psycho II," "Masada," "Explorers," "Dracula," "The Eiger Sanction," "Ghost Story," "Conan the Barbarian," "Conan the Destroyer," and many others. Eventually, this license expired, and these CDs became rare. But Varese does not own these in perpetuity, as evidenced by the "Explorers" CD from Intrada, the upcoming "Conans," and "Masada" (granted, a different recording, but in some cases those rights are tied up together regardless).

 
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