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 Posted:   Jan 29, 2002 - 9:38 PM   
 By:   cinemel   (Member)

Has anyone heard anything lately about the
DVD release of 1776? Will any of the material cut from the original release version, particularly "Cool Cool Considerate Men", be included in the body of the film?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 30, 2002 - 12:23 AM   
 By:   joec   (Member)

This topic has been addressed many times already on this board. Do a search and you can read more about it. Apprantly the COOL scence will be included, but other outakes included on the expanded laser set will not be. More details are forthcoming.

 
 Posted:   Jan 30, 2002 - 2:03 AM   
 By:   Eric Paddon   (Member)

I've been engaged in a pretty spirited exchange on Home Theater Forum about the fact that the DVD is sadly going to take a giant step backward by truncating "Piddle, Twiddle and Resolve" back to the cut theatrical version in spite of the fact that people have pleaded with Peter Hunt not to do this. For me, the decision to butcher a musical number back into a version that was never pleasant to watch given the badness of the cut and the fact that the entire structure of the song gets thrown out of whack without all three verses, has now lead me to conclude that the DVD is something I have no intention of wasting a nickel of money or a minute of time on, ever. (despite supposed promises that a "complete" Piddle would appear in a supplement, there is no promise that it would be the full number in proper context which means the whole continuous number from "Sit Down John" through "Till Then". Without that kind of presentation, it is false to call that a "complete" version).

What makes these changes more outrageous is that Hunt is now saying that he is getting a chance to present his true vision of the film and didn't have that chance to do so when the LD was put together in 1991, but Joe Capporicio himself said on the thread that Hunt had the right to nix anything that ended up in the LD.

The bottom line is make sure your LD players stay in working order for you to enjoy the only cut of the film that should be seen and if you're not sure they are working properly then make a VHS dub as soon as you can. Thanks to Hunt, the ability to enjoy the best cut of the film is in danger of becoming extinct.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 30, 2002 - 3:19 AM   
 By:   Originalthinkr@aol.com   (Member)

When I eventually get my DVD recorder, I'll make DVD's of the Pioneer laserdisc for one and all!

(Writer then thumbs his nose at Columbia). Ptooey!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 30, 2002 - 11:09 AM   
 By:   joec   (Member)

When I eventually get my DVD recorder, I'll make DVD's of the Pioneer laserdisc for one and all!

(Writer then thumbs his nose at Columbia). Ptooey!


I'll do the same. I am sure some "greedy" Ebay people will also be able to make a little profit as well with 1776 and the musical LOST HORIZON!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 30, 2002 - 2:21 PM   
 By:   cinemel   (Member)

Thanks for your input. I will treasure the laserdisc since the complete 1776 will probably only be awailable on that format. What can the
suits be thinking when they ruin a work of art?
Hunt's commentary on the laserdisc is a superb narrative on the gestation and production of the show and film. People forget that the laserdisc initiated the commentary as a supplementary feature to special editions.

 
 Posted:   Jan 30, 2002 - 4:32 PM   
 By:   Eric Paddon   (Member)

Just to clarify one thing. It's Hunt himself who is making the dumb decision to ruin the film, which only goes to show that isn't always a "suit" that can make a dumb decision, but so too can the director (in the tradition of Lucas and the SE of SW).

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 30, 2002 - 5:15 PM   
 By:   Originalthinkr@aol.com   (Member)

George Lucas is one thing, but it surprises me that Columbia would have given the likes of Peter Hunt -- Peter HUNT!! -- the power to bowdlerize a film it -- not he -- owns.

Why, in this one peculiar instance, has a studio not exercised its Divine Right to throw its considerable weight around and dictate how one of its products goes out into the marketplace?

I can't believe that in the early 1970s Hunt negotiated a contract so favorable to himself that it apparently ranks up there with the paperwork on CITIZEN KANE that forbade RKO from making changes without Orson Welles's approval.

Has anybody actually contacted Columbia about this and made known that they're apt to lose sales by offering this inferior piece of re-thought crap?

 
 Posted:   Jan 30, 2002 - 6:16 PM   
 By:   Eric Paddon   (Member)

Here is what Hunt's apologists had to say in the exchange I've had on the HTF thread.

1-They say that if Columbia had done things themself they might have only released the original theatrical cut on DVD which would have been totally unacceptable to all of us. This is possibly true, given that Columbia may not have taken the time to go to the problem of restoring the found camera negative footage of all cut scenes back into the film itself for a new version and might not have been keen on releasing the LD version with the rough quality footage for a mass DVD release.

2-They say that Hunt's perogative as the director must ultimately supersede the desires of fans of the movie, even though Hunt has been told repeatedly that fans of the movie will not like the fact that a musical number is being cut once again and that if we don't like that decision, tough nuggie for us, we don't have to buy it then. But of course what's so idiotic about that line of thinking is that its the presence of "Fans" in the first place that made it possible for there to be a demand to have "1776" restored back to its full length, and if we're not going to like the end result how can they expect to reach a wide audience with this DVD? And why should the true fans of this movie be denied the opportunity to see the cut that we prefer in the best possible home video format? This is not a case of demanding that a director take something out of the vaults that has never before been seen in an earlier cut of the film (as would be the case if SW buffs wanted the Biggs scenes on Tatooine restored to a cut of SW) but rather a case of asking that an existing cut on an earlier home video format still be made available to us who don't like what Hunt has in mind.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 30, 2002 - 10:53 PM   
 By:   Dr Know   (Member)

What kills me is that my ex-wife is sitting on most of my former laserdisc collection, including the special edition of 1776, and she probably won't ever watch it (and couldn't care less about it), and despite a court order that she return my property, she refuses!

I know, that's too much information, but it feels good to vent.

Bottom line: if you have the laserdisc, don't let it out of your sight....

Cheers

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2002 - 6:35 AM   
 By:   Originalthinkr@aol.com   (Member)

Maybe your Ex's keeping company with Peter Hunt, and he's going around sweet-talking every owner of the laserdisc so that they can all be sent to a landfill in Butte, Montana, or someplace.

Seriously, though, I find Columbia's stance difficult to fathom regarding the latitude they're giving Hunt, because it sets a precedent for all directors to demand the same treatment vis-a-vis home video releases of their films.

Columbia will come to regret their decision on two fronts, it seems...

 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2002 - 6:38 AM   
 By:   Eric Paddon   (Member)

Well original, it seems as though we've at last found common cause on something to let us unite in solidarity! smile Down with Peter H. Hunt!!!! (Got to use the initial so as not to malign the original Peter Hunt of Bond film fame).

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2002 - 6:39 AM   
 By:   Originalthinkr@aol.com   (Member)

True. A bas le "H!" (Maybe he's Welsh, and it's really Peter Hhunt)."

 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2002 - 6:10 PM   
 By:   Eric Paddon   (Member)

I just had an interesting talk with Joe Caporicio who made the LD possible, and while I should not reveal everything he said I think its worth noting that he again emphasized that Hunt gave his approval to the LD cut, and I think the fact that Hunt did approve that cut ultimately explains why Hunt's perogative as director to make changes now becomes even more of a weak argument.

But what is more outrageous is to learn that while Joe Caps was assembling the LD using rough quality footage, all the time Columbia had ALL of the missing camera negative footage and in effect misled him on that point, thus denying us of the chance to see the whole LD cut in perfect quality footage as should have been the case back then.

Joe also revealed that a CD of the film soundtrack was planned at the time of the LD which would have been a vast improvement over the LP which reflects only the butchered numbers of the theatrical cut, but unfortunately the plans fell through.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2002 - 7:04 PM   
 By:   joec   (Member)

A big problem with the 1776 restored laser disc version is that in essence it is a "video" restoration. No new motion picture print was manufactured becuse of the condition of the restored materials. This is a shame especially considering that Columbia had original negative materials available all along. An expanded and remastered soundtrack album issued from the orginal master recordings would be great. Perhaps there is still hope someone will take that project on.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2002 - 8:20 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

One of these centuries I'm going to create the ultimate 1776 soundtrack by editing the best of both cast album and soundtrack together.

The ultimate insult is the director sabotaging what any self-respecting fan would want: a complete fully-restored director's cut. This isn't like what David Lean did with Lawrence in that Lean added back and cut in the hopes of a definitive narrative. No, Mr. Hunt would actually undo not only the laser disc but also the stage play that started the whole thing. Unreal. He of all people should be especially sensitive to stage-to-screen productions. Is Jack Warner's influence reaching out from the grave or what?

 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2002 - 8:38 PM   
 By:   Eric Paddon   (Member)

How would you assemble the ultimate 1776 CD soundtrack, Howard? What specifically from the film and what from the show?

 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2002 - 8:50 PM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

How is Joe Caporiccio doing, Eric?

Last anyone I know had heard, he had been moved from LA to someplace back east by his family.

Has he recovered totally from his unfortunate accident last August?

 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2002 - 9:06 PM   
 By:   Eric Paddon   (Member)

He says he's recovering fine, and he sounded pretty strong to me when we talked. I believe he is still in southern California though since he mentioned the sunny 70 degree weather where he is in contrast to the one foot blizzard I was calling from.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 31, 2002 - 9:30 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

Hey Eric:

For starters, I would use the Yours, Yours intro from the flick combined with the entire track from the cast album; same with He Plays the Violin but I would also insert the Franklin/Martha dance music from the flick. And insert parts of the cast album into the truncated Molasses to Rum Cullum vocal to make it whole. And substitute the Everhart "Oh that word!" from the cast album in place of Da Silva's. For starters!




 
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