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 Posted:   Jul 12, 2019 - 8:19 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

I'm with you, but if the library music is to be included, a single set could outscale even the Star Trek 15 CD set. Because it's an anthology show, the composers might be more of a selling point factor with Twilight Zone, the works being more distinctive to them than the series. The situation with Zone is a little different from a show with more singular world, like Trek and Lost in Space. It lends to the music not needing to be presented chronologically by episode.

Not sure if you're saying that including library music would mean more CD's or higher price than the TREK box. It might not amount to as much as you think. Also, the pre-existing "library" is not generic, but by known composers - Herrmann, Steiner, Goldsmith, etc. so it would already have the name recognition ("a selling point") you mentioned.
Aside from that, alot of episodes simply re-used music from scored episodes (like Star Trek did), so the scored episodes would probably make up the majority of a box set.

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2019 - 8:47 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

I'd prefer a separate release of "Man on the Beach" (paired with another score, since I'm assuming it's too short by itself) rather than tack on one or two cues onto a set of scoring from another show.

Right now it would be the only way to hear the entire score.

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2019 - 9:33 AM   
 By:   Scott M (Oldsmith)   (Member)

I have to be honest, I don't think I'd be up for a 'complete' box set.

Sometimes, that's too much.


I get that. But i feel it's only too much if you don't have the connection with the music that other people might. For example, the Star Trek TNG Ron Jones set is too much for me, but the Star Trek TOS Box Set wasn't because that's been music I've been connected with my whole life. Or the Lost in Space set was too much because my distaste for comedy music made the bulk of the middle section too hard to enjoy.

On the other hand, I would rather have "too much" than a highlights album that excludes my favorite cues. The Star Trek Enterprise and DS9 sets are a huge frustration in how they don't include cues (some are genuine fan favorites) I would sell my dead grandmother for. That's how it goes though: too much/not enough/just right. It all depends on what you want, I guess.

I'd love a complete Twilight Zone box. Also Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. big grin

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2019 - 12:50 PM   
 By:   JeffM   (Member)

^ What ScottM said.

Also, I'd be in for a set. I might not be able to buy it right away, but if it were around long enough for me to save up for it, I could handle it.

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2019 - 6:09 PM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

I get that. But i feel it's only too much if you don't have the connection with the music that other people might. For example, the Star Trek TNG Ron Jones set is too much for me, but the Star Trek TOS Box Set wasn't because that's been music I've been connected with my whole life. Or the Lost in Space set was too much because my distaste for comedy music made the bulk of the middle section too hard to enjoy.

On the other hand, I would rather have "too much" than a highlights album that excludes my favorite cues. The Star Trek Enterprise and DS9 sets are a huge frustration in how they don't include cues (some are genuine fan favorites) I would sell my dead grandmother for. That's how it goes though: too much/not enough/just right. It all depends on what you want, I guess.

I'd love a complete Twilight Zone box. Also Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. big grin



Another nice thing about complete box sets is that they give the world an everlasting "safety copy" before the next warehouse fire destroys the studio master tapes. And there is always another warehouse fire coming if you just wait a few years.

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2019 - 2:23 AM   
 By:   Lokutus   (Member)

YES!

So many CBS All Access series get released, why not this one?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2019 - 7:10 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Another nice thing about complete box sets is that they give the world an everlasting "safety copy" before the next warehouse fire destroys the studio master tapes. And there is always another warehouse fire coming if you just wait a few years.

Exactly, because we can imagine all the millions rioting in the streets if the Six Million Dollar Man master tapes were lost!

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2019 - 11:24 AM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

I get that. But i feel it's only too much if you don't have the connection with the music that other people might. For example, the Star Trek TNG Ron Jones set is too much for me, but the Star Trek TOS Box Set wasn't because that's been music I've been connected with my whole life. Or the Lost in Space set was too much because my distaste for comedy music made the bulk of the middle section too hard to enjoy.

On the other hand, I would rather have "too much" than a highlights album that excludes my favorite cues. The Star Trek Enterprise and DS9 sets are a huge frustration in how they don't include cues (some are genuine fan favorites) I would sell my dead grandmother for. That's how it goes though: too much/not enough/just right. It all depends on what you want, I guess.

I'd love a complete Twilight Zone box. Also Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. big grin



Another nice thing about complete box sets is that they give the world an everlasting "safety copy" before the next warehouse fire destroys the studio master tapes. And there is always another warehouse fire coming if you just wait a few years.


In this case, if there was a vault fire, I'd be more concerned about what else UCLA has in its archives.

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2019 - 12:21 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

I wish UCLA had Jim Morrison's student film ?

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2019 - 1:01 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Another nice thing about complete box sets is that they give the world an everlasting "safety copy" before the next warehouse fire destroys the studio master tapes. And there is always another warehouse fire coming if you just wait a few years.

Not to mention all the digital copies that will go up in virtual smoke if there's an EMP. Then again, you need your physical copies to be a mile outside the blast area.


 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2019 - 1:06 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

Nice photo!

Btw is that John Blankenship in the photo?
wink

 
 Posted:   Jul 13, 2019 - 5:51 PM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

Exactly, because we can imagine all the millions rioting in the streets if the Six Million Dollar Man master tapes were lost!


I may have alluded to that danger in a prior thread, yes. It just makes sense to get The Six Million Dollar Man on CD, if only for the sake of domestic tranquility.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2019 - 12:31 PM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

The 4th Season

Fred Steiner

The Bard
I Dream of Genie
Miniature
Mute

Van Cleave

Jess-Belle

Rene Garriguenc

Passage on the Lady Anne


This season of hour-long episodes rarely gets its music talked about.
Out of 18 segments produced, only 6 received musical scores written for them - and 2/3 of these were by Fred Steiner.
One could say that Steiner was the musical voice for the 4th season, but I don't think any of the music written for this season and the 5th season was ever 'tracked' into the show's remaining library stocked episodes.

Personally, I consider Van Cleave's Jess-Belle to be the most diverse score written for a single story. There's country square dance fiddle music, an act-by-act ballad sung by a female vocalist, a theme performed on harmonica and Van Cleave's 'trade mark' NovaChord sequences.

Rene Garriguenc's contribution also impresses me. He wrote in comfortably conventional Golden Age idiom which could seem melodramatic or sentimental but which is appropriate for the material and always with the integrity of dramatic orchestral scoring.

I prefer both of these to Steiner's output. Of the 4 Steiners, though, I think Mute is the most affecting and quite Herrmannesque.
I'm not too keen on the 2 comedy shows, honestly.

 
 Posted:   Jul 22, 2019 - 8:36 PM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

Its actually unknown if Van Cleave used a novachord on Twilight Zone. All the documentation at the time states he made use of an electric violin and a "prepared organ".

 
 Posted:   Jul 22, 2019 - 8:52 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

Its actually unknown if Van Cleave used a novachord on Twilight Zone. All the documentation at the time states he made use of an electric violin and a "prepared organ".

What?!
How can he use instruments that " alien to the time period".

It " takes me out of the story".

 
 Posted:   Jul 22, 2019 - 8:53 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

TZ hired Steiner when they couldn't get Herrmann.

 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2019 - 12:02 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

The problem with the composer-based approach suggested by my esteemed colleague W. David Lichty is this: people will of course buy the Goldsmith box set and the Herrmann box set, and sales of the "leftover" scores are not going to go well, I think. So if we really want a definitive release of all the Twilight Zone music, we can't do that. If the goal is just to get all of the Herrmann and Goldsmith out there in definitive form, then maybe that is the best thing to do. But then a lot of good music by less well known composers will remain unreleased and overlooked. After consideration of the many contributions here, I'm thinking that season sets of Twilight Zone scores would make the most sense. The "wild" library cues could be interspersed throughout, in a fashion to even out the set size.

I remember when LLL released their mega Star Trek TOS box, a lot of people chimed in with a preference for individual 5-disc season releases. I still think this would be a popular option when it comes to TZ, and that the sets would be reasonable Batman TAS sort of sizes. The only set that would be likely to sell less (because it'd be sans Goldsmith/Herrmann/Waxman/other big names) would be season 4. Maybe adding in more of the "wild" library music (including by the "name" composers) there would make sense, to make that set more attractive. What would people here think of that?

BTW, LordDalek...it may not have the advantages of being roughly chronological by composer, but if a mega-set were the way to go, it could be arranged much more efficiently than you laid out above. For example, your proposed Disc 4 with three Goldsmith scores wouldn't even fill up half of the available space on a 77-78 minute CD. In fact, if the "Jazz Themes" and "wild" library cues are left off, I think all seven Goldsmith Twilight Zone scores could probably fit complete on a single CD.

I'd prefer a separate release of "Man on the Beach" (paired with another score, since I'm assuming it's too short by itself) rather than tack on one or two cues onto a set of scoring from another show.
Right now it would be the only way to hear the entire score.


I'm not sure how many buyers are going to swarm to a standalone release of an unaired pilot like Man on the Beach...though it's Goldsmith so who knows? Pairing it with Jerry's unreleased pilot score to The Sergeant and the Lady would make a lot of sense, and maybe there's another standalone Goldsmith oddity or two in the CBS vaults that could even fill out the disc with them. But the main reason I was suggesting inclusion in the definitive Twilight Zone set release is because otherwise, people will say, "this is missing such-and-such music that was on the Silva 4-CD set"... since Man on the Beach was included on that as "Jazz Theme #1" but still supposedly "Twilight Zone music" it may just be too tied in to omit from a future more definitive TZ release. And it wasn't the entire score, but it was over three quarters of it I think....quite a few cues, all lumped together in a single suite track.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2019 - 3:15 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Did anyone from LLL explain why some series were released as complete instead of as separate seasons (eg Star Trek, Lost In Space)? Was it cheaper to license an entire series at one time? Was is stipulated by the studio? Or just a personal preference (which guaranteed sales even if someone only wanted one season)?
Any conjecture about a release would depend on the answer. If it was just their preference, LLL would probably do the piecemeal approach rather than complete seasons. If we had a say in the matter, and given the composers, I'd prefer composer-centered releases, assuming there were no copyright conflicts. It made sense to collate the material for the Gothic/Western Herrmann cds and Goldsmith Early Years. Seems like a complete season or entire series would be too problematic, and most of the fans will have probably passed on by the time it was done (which is why I'm thankful for the isolated scores on video).

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2019 - 4:48 PM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

Its actually unknown if Van Cleave used a novachord on Twilight Zone. All the documentation at the time states he made use of an electric violin and a "prepared organ".

Thanks for the info! Never expected to be chatting with a Lord Dalek regarding The Twilight Zone instead of Doctor Who.
[I wonder if Terry Nation & Dennis Spooner ever watched The Twilight Zone?] smile

Yeah - those official musician credits might very well list performers under the heading of percussion, but not go into details on whom played on which instrument(s).
Maybe a novachord might be classified under keyboards or such?
If Van Cleave used electric violin with prepared organ, then this might be that Jack Cookerly 'magic box'/Hammond Organ utilized on 1958's It! The Terror from Beyond Space and Alexander Courage's early Star Trek scores.
Nonetheless, the resultant effect continues to remind me of the (supposed) novachord heard within George Duning's Wreck of the Mary Deare and Jerry Goldsmith's Morituri & Jonah and the Whale.

 
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