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 Posted:   Jan 4, 2021 - 10:49 AM   
 By:   W. David Lichty [Lorien]   (Member)

Speaking of 'missed this', I'd written:

I'm with you, but if the library music is to be included, a single set could outscale even the Star Trek 15 CD set. Because it's an anthology show, the composers might be more of a selling point factor with Twilight Zone, the works being more distinctive to them than the series. The situation with Zone is a little different from a show with more singular world, like Trek and Lost in Space. It lends to the music not needing to be presented chronologically by episode.

Then Last Child followed up:

Not sure if you're saying that including library music would mean more CD's or higher price than the TREK box. It might not amount to as much as you think. Also, the pre-existing "library" is not generic, but by known composers - Herrmann, Steiner, Goldsmith, etc. so it would already have the name recognition ("a selling point") you mentioned. Aside from that, alot of episodes simply re-used music from scored episodes (like Star Trek did), so the scored episodes would probably make up the majority of a box set.

Yeah, I might have over-guessed. The original scores just might fit on 10 CDs. Zone fell under the rule where 1/3 of the produced episodes in a season had to have original scores, and they hit that number exactly. My thinking was an average length of 12 minutes of music per scored episode (possibly a little high), with 13 original scores for four of the seasons, and 6 for season four at twice the length, that's ~780 minutes, or 10 very tightly squeezed CDs if my 12 minutes is right, and less tightly squeezed ones if that was over. I think we could safely round down to 10 CDs, anyway.

For library music, I'd pulled everything I could get from the isolated score tracks, just of Goldsmith's, since that was my interest at the time, reconstructing cues from multiple locations where possible, which still left me with mostly ~45 second cues. Maybe it's safe to say I got 1/2 of the music from the various cues used, and I was able to pull from a generous 4 out of 5 episodes (those are some great blu-rays).

I think the tracked in music added up to about 45 minutes, even excluding the tracks pulled from programs like Gunsmoke, The Lineup and so on, so the math would suggest I got 45 minutes of a possible 108 minutes, but again, let's assume I'm wrong about the 1/2 figure, or that there might not be as much to pull, which was not already pulled, on those 5th episodes which didn't have isolated scores. For Goldsmith alone, I think that could still easily fill up 1 CD. I feel like Herrmann may have had even more library cues, as he may have had more music overall in the series, though that is a wild guess on my part.

Maybe if Goldsmith's wild cues fill up one disc, Herrmann's + those of others might fill two more? Wild stab, again.

But then with Goldsmith, some of those cues were parts of suites, longer scores or unsold pilot scores, as might also be the case with some of the other composers' wild music. Jazz Themes #1 and #2, from that 4CD Silva set, were from such sources, and both were incomplete on that set. A couple of discs might pleasingly provide the only excuses there may ever be to put some of those full scores out too, in the interests of Zone completeness and the composers represented. That could get us to 15, not that the number is magic, or I need my guesses to be canonized, but that was where I was coming from, and probably describes the ideal set, for me.


By the way, these are the shows where we covered those wild cues from Twilight Zone, before I was even an official Goldsmith Odyssean:

https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/797224-episode-12-cbs-music-library-spectacular-part-1

https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/812543-episode-13-cbs-music-library-spectacular-part-2


(oh, and Jazz Themes 1 & 2!)

https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/779305-episode-11-man-on-the-beach-1959-the-fair-haired-boy-1958

 
 Posted:   Jan 4, 2021 - 10:51 AM   
 By:   W. David Lichty [Lorien]   (Member)

The Lichty Temptation

( go for it next sale! smile )


Heh! I'd love to, but I'll wager it's gone by then. They do one a year, right? In June? That one's already on a countdown.


And I did, indeed, get it, not too long before it sold out, too. Wanting to support during COVID pushed me over the line last April, and their sale made it easy to leap over that line, too.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 4, 2021 - 11:07 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Some notes copied from the Twilight Zone Cafe about two Van Cleave episodes:

The score for "Perchance to Dream" was composed for the following instruments:
Violin
Organ
Piano/ Hammond Organ
Bass Clarinet/Clarinet
Contrabass Clarinet/Soprano Sax
Horn
2 Trumpets
2 Trombones
Percussion (including Vibraphone, Xylophone, Cymbal, Snare Drum)
4 Cellos
Both the LP and CD liner notes claim that the score includes parts for Theremin and Novachord, but neither instrument is listed on the score or any other document I've seen. The Novachord is a keyboard instrument, so it's possible that that's what is called simply "organ". The part that (admittedly) sounds like a Theremin is the violin part, and the credited musician is a violinist. It's likely that the violin was processed to make it sound electronic.


The score for “Jess-Belle” is dated 12/26/62 and was composed for the following instruments:
Alto Flute
3 Trombones
Organ
Special Organ
Harmonica/Bass Harmonica
Guitar
4 Cellos
I can't say what "Special Organ" is.

 
 Posted:   Jan 4, 2021 - 3:15 PM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

FTR the real reason why there hasn't been (and probably never will be) a definitive Twilight Zone set is because the CBS Music Library was donated to UCLA which charges a hefty sum to go find the tapes and make copies of them.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 4, 2021 - 4:53 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

FTR the real reason why there hasn't been (and probably never will be) a definitive Twilight Zone set is because the CBS Music Library was donated to UCLA which charges a hefty sum to go find the tapes and make copies of them.

Until a connection is made, and a relationship is formed, and then they are released. Think of all the "It'll never happen" releases we've seen in the last 25-or-so years.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 4, 2021 - 7:35 PM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)


The score for “Jess-Belle” is dated 12/26/62 and was composed for the following instruments:
Alto Flute
3 Trombones
Organ
Special Organ
Harmonica/Bass Harmonica
Guitar
4 Cellos
I can't say what "Special Organ" is.


Thanks for this info! So Van Cleave recorded this the day after X-Mas. Never knew session dates before - this implies that "Jess-Belle" was likely filmed one week in December '62 (or late November?).

My guess is that 'special' might refer to a Jack Cookerly organ.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 4, 2021 - 7:45 PM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

FTR the real reason why there hasn't been (and probably never will be) a definitive Twilight Zone set is because the CBS Music Library was donated to UCLA which charges a hefty sum to go find the tapes and make copies of them.

Until a connection is made, and a relationship is formed, and then they are released. Think of all the "It'll never happen" releases we've seen in the last 25-or-so years.


Who would be willing to raid UCLA and ransack their archives? "Hand over the entire CBS Library, Ma'am, and nobody will get hurt. We only came for the tapes."

Then we'd send the tapes out to a James Nelson or a Chris Malone and tell them to 'git crackin'. big grin

 
 Posted:   Jan 4, 2021 - 8:15 PM   
 By:   DavidCorkum   (Member)

"Jerry Goldsmith's The Twilight Zone" and "Jerry Goldsmith's Thriller". Two multi-disc box sets found only in...the Twilight Zone.

 
 Posted:   Jan 6, 2021 - 5:55 AM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

My guess is that 'special' might refer to a Jack Cookerly organ.

That would be the same organ used on Perchance to Dream and World of Difference then.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2021 - 5:40 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

For those of you who own the 4CD set, do the liner notes say anything about which episodes featured John Williams as pianist?

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2021 - 6:21 AM   
 By:   W. David Lichty [Lorien]   (Member)

For those of you who own the 4CD set, do the liner notes say anything about which episodes featured John Williams as pianist?

It's the kind of surprise I think I'd've remembered, so I don't think so, but if no one chimes in, I'll check after work tonight and get back to you (some 8 hours hence).

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2021 - 6:53 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Performers aren't mentioned in the 40th Anniversary notes. Check the John Williams fansite or Twilight Zone Cafe.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2021 - 7:20 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I see.

There's nothing on any Williams fansites or forums. All I know is that he played piano on one or more of Herrmann's ZONE scores. I don't know which ones, how many, or if he also played on scores by other composers.

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2021 - 9:57 AM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

There are no piano parts on any of Bernard Herrmann's TZ Scores.

Anyway all the scores on the four disc were recorded outside the United States with scab orchestras so I doubt he played on any of them.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2021 - 10:13 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

There are no piano parts on any of Bernard Herrmann's TZ Scores.

There is celesta on "The Outer Space Suite."

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2021 - 10:15 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Anyway all the scores on the four disc were recorded outside the United States with scab orchestras so I doubt he played on any of them.

No, it's more or less a fact that he played on TWILIGHT ZONE, and on Herrmann's score(s), but the extent of it is something we don't yet know.

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2021 - 10:23 AM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

Anyway all the scores on the four disc were recorded outside the United States with scab orchestras so I doubt he played on any of them.

No, it's more or less a fact that he played on TWILIGHT ZONE, and on Herrmann's score(s), but the extent of it is something we don't yet know.


The only option would be celeste on Living Doll which was after ASCAP nailed CBS for their union circumvention methods.

I've never seen John Williams play woodwinds which is what Ninety Years Without Slumbering was written entirely for.

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2021 - 10:24 AM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)


There is celesta on "The Outer Space Suite."


That's technically not a TZ Score and it was recorded in Mexico with non-ASCAPers.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2021 - 10:25 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Thanks! Perhaps it was celeste, then.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2021 - 10:26 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)


There is celesta on "The Outer Space Suite."

That's technically not a TZ Score and it was recorded in Mexico with non-ASCAPers.


Do we know that it was not recorded more than once?

And if it is used in "The Twilight Zone," I consider it technically a "Twilight Zone" score. Your threshold may be different from mine.

 
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