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Sugar´s current CAM catalogue in which STAR OF INDIA is included actually comprises or should comprise all the tapes which they still possess. Nevertheless, there are still sometimes faulty entries here and there and my own epxerience is that if you ask them for an approval of an old title from the 50s or even early 60s it could still be that they don´t have any material anymore or only parts of it - even though the title is in their updated list. We have experienced this at Saimel already a few times during the last years.
If STAR OF INDIA will be released on CD at all, then rather expect it from Saimel in the future.
I also don´t think that Quartet will have much interest in releasing IL BRIGANTE. As I wrote: No label has reserved this title in the Sugar list till now as opposed to the popular ones of which of course all have been reserved for a long time and will be expanded.
People simply expect too much at the moment and don´t seem to realize the risks and costs of issuing such more obscure titles. These won´t sell well. Also our RELUCTANT SAINT CD on Saimel was not at all a commercial success although it was a Rota score.
The current Rota expansions are all about the really famous titles for the Fellini/Visconti films which of course can also be exploited on the international market and which will certainly sell there quite well. Something like this will not be possible at all with IL BRIGANTE as almost nobody knows the score and the film anymore - above all not the US collectors who are the decisive factor in this matter.
Many thanks for the insight. Owning a tape doesn't mean it is usable. I think time is getting short - even with stable tape stock from the 1950s. Even more alarming is that transfers from the 1980s/1990s that were meant to preserve archival material are also getting unusable now...
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I just found that the Blu-ray of Luchino Visconti's 'Rocco and His Brothers' will be coming out in July. Many years ago, I had the regular DVD of the film, along with the soundtrack CD, but they went missing long ago. Wondering if this Nino Rota score could be 'eligible' for an expansion by Quartet Records like the other Rota scores so far expanded? I don't recall what label originally released this score, and it's not a Fellini Film, so I'm hoping that won't be grounds for it to be excluded from an expansion.
Here it be: https://www.quartetrecords.com/product/rocco-e-i-suoi-fratelli-2-cd/
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Jose produced a wonderful package to support Nino Rota’s evocative music. From the great notes by Gergely Hubai to the dynamic black and white stills in Nacho Govantes’ design, this turned out great.
Chris
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Superb project...and the film is a masterpiece as well. Bravo to Quartet !
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Bravo indeed! And bravo to the hope it encourages that eventually Quartet will get around to GIULIETTA DEGLI SPIRITI...
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Jose produced a wonderful package to support Nino Rota’s evocative music. From the great notes by Gergely Hubai to the dynamic black and white stills in Nacho Govantes’ design, this turned out great.
Chris
Many tracks on the CAM CD of ROCCO E I SUOI FRATELLI from 1992 sounded very unnatural, distant and cavernous with quite a lot of defects. On the back cover of that CD they mentioned that all of this was due to technical imperfections in the original recording. Based on the audio clips of this new Quartet release, I would say that the sound has been much improved now, the music sounds fresher and clearer than before and much more "in your face."
Therefore I would be interested to know if the tapes you had received from Sugar were still in good shape - despite CAM´s former statement to the contrary - or if it was a lot of work for you to clean them up and to get such an improved sound quality?
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I did listen to the Rocco OST tape and we didn’t like the sound so decided to recreate it from the original mono sources we had, which still needed work to move them in a sensible direction.
More broadly, and in my experience, the Nino Rota scores recorded at Rome’s RCA Studios or International Recording Studios (by the industrious Federico Savina) were typically well executed. The CAM/Sugar tapes often do have their limitations but nothing insurmountable with today’s technology and patience.
Chris
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I got mine today.
It's a great release and it sounds good for its age, Chris!
Pretty crisp and clear.
I took a lossless rip and noticed the bitrate didn't come out that high, which I assume means the frequency range of the original recording must have been a bit limited.
(Unsurprising for its age, I suppose.)
Was that what you found Chris?
Cheers
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Hi Stephen
As the Rocco music was recorded in mono, the new CD has identical content in the left and right channels. So, I suspect any sensible lossless (or lossy, for that matter) encoder should recognise this and only require half the storage space.
The original LP was electronically re-channelled stereo that was all the rage to sell 'stereo' LPs at the time. I guess our soundtrack labels and producers vacillate on whether fake stereo processing should be added to these old mono recordings. If I have the choice, my rule is simple. I prefer keeping a mono recording in mono. The exception being if we’re interspersing mono recordings amongst stereo mixes. In that case, some processing is useful to make everything sit together better. But there are even exceptions to my exception! I can think of one disc I’ve been working on that has just one mono piece and I’m keeping that in true mono.
Incidentally, the above is the same situation to Quartet’s White Buffalo CD that you also identified as encoding at a lower bit-rate to the Prometheus edition. The Quartet is mono, the Prometheus has a stereo effect added.
Thanks, as always, for listening!
Chris
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More broadly, and in my experience, the Nino Rota scores recorded at Rome’s RCA Studios or International Recording Studios (by the industrious Federico Savina) were typically well executed. The CAM/Sugar tapes often do have their limitations but nothing insurmountable with today’s technology and patience.
Chris
Hi, Chris.
Would you be the 1st non-Italian to restore/re-master recordings from C.A.M. held @ Gruppo Sugar?
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Hi Stephen
As the Rocco music was recorded in mono, the new CD has identical content in the left and right channels. So, I suspect any sensible lossless (or lossy, for that matter) encoder should recognise this and only require half the storage space.
The original LP was electronically re-channelled stereo that was all the rage to sell 'stereo' LPs at the time. I guess our soundtrack labels and producers vacillate on whether fake stereo processing should be added to these old mono recordings. If I have the choice, my rule is simple. I prefer keeping a mono recording in mono. The exception being if we’re interspersing mono recordings amongst stereo mixes. In that case, some processing is useful to make everything sit together better. But there are even exceptions to my exception! I can think of one disc I’ve been working on that has just one mono piece and I’m keeping that in true mono.
Incidentally, the above is the same situation to Quartet’s White Buffalo CD that you also identified as encoding at a lower bit-rate to the Prometheus edition. The Quartet is mono, the Prometheus has a stereo effect added.
Thanks, as always, for listening!
Chris
Thanks Chris. Yes that makes sense. I should add and re-emphasise for sake of everyone reading, I'm very happy with the disc. I didn't mean to imply this is anything otherwise.
Like I said, it sounds good for its age, I think you've done a grand job, Chris, as you always do.
I was very happy with the sound of Quartet's The White Buffalo too.
And, I agree with you. If it's mono, present it in mono. That's often the best path to the clearest possible listerning experience.
I'm one of those geeks who prefers the Beatles' original albums, the ones designed for mono, in mono.
Cheers
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Hi Stephen
No problem at all! It’s all subjective stuff. We can’t easily take off the stereo processing once added but we can always add our own during playback or on our receiver or whatever if we really want it.
Jose is the one to thank for all these Nino Rota projects. He’s expertly produced them and been a great supporter of any of my technical suggestions.
Chris
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Would you be the 1st non-Italian to restore/re-master recordings from C.A.M. held @ Gruppo Sugar?
Hi ZardozSpeaks
I don’t know the answer to that, sorry.
Chris
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