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 Posted:   Feb 12, 2017 - 9:01 PM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

It depends on if we're talking kitsch (intentional)...

I'm not sure if kitsch is ever intentional. I think that works enter the realm of kitsch only after they are produced, for a variety of reasons.


Kitsch is failure.

 
 Posted:   Feb 13, 2017 - 8:17 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

I haven't wanted to get into this conversation because I don't value the term or the various concepts that go with it. It's just another way for those who don't like something to defend their taste. For me taste needs no defense.

The longer I live the more bored I get with people telling me that this or that thing is cheap, tawdry, cheesy, kitschy, camp, etc.

All that said, the answer to the question is of course yes for those who think a given score is kitsch, and no for those who don't.

 
 Posted:   Feb 13, 2017 - 8:24 AM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

I haven't wanted to get into this conversation because I don't value the term or the various concepts that go with it. It's just another way for those who don't like something to defend their taste. For me taste needs no defense.

You do know, for instance, that in the world there are those that actually like the taste of shit -- real shit. They are those that literally eat shit! You think they don't have to defend that?

It's all relative and a matter of degrees. And usually, those without degrees are very bad at defending their tastes. (That was a pun.)

When Irwin Allen...Produced Lost in Space for tv the pilot was extremely serious. Including maybe the first 6 episodes of the first season..were major serious, and when Dr. Zachary Smith turned into this evil plot master to Bubble Headed Booby played beautifully by Johnathan Harris, who was called into Irwin Allen's office and was told to do more! ...June Lockhart said it turned from a story about The Robinson to Will and Robot and Dr. Smith.

Moving from real shit to what some consider figurative shit.....

I believe I said I don't see "Lost in Space" as kitsch. It was originally intended for a board, family audience, though most aimed at a juvenile one, and it became intentionally more "campy" but never, I feel, kitsch -- not even in the vegetable rebellion -- though it obviously ran out of creative gas.

When I say it wasn't serious, I mean it had no interest in being scientifically accurate or plausible or even having the pretense of that as things like "Star Trek" did and still does, and 2001 certainly did.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 13, 2017 - 2:46 PM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

I'm reminded of Dwight McDonald's use of the term in reviewing THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD. He deemed that film to be "middlebrow kitsch." This was in comparison with THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO ST. MATTHEW ("highbrow kitsch") and KING OF KINGS ("lowbrow kitsch").

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 13, 2017 - 3:03 PM   
 By:   bagby   (Member)

Best example I can think of is the otherwise excellent 'Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid' and the wholly inapproriate score by Burt Bacharach. Very popular in its own time, ridiculously so, and nearly unfathomable today.

Another one might be 'Love Story.' We thought it was pretty dumb at the time and the score has endured, or at least, a theme.

Modern day: I'd offer up 'Twilight' or any of its sequels, or 'Fifty Shades of Gray' as likely examples of future classification as such. Maybe also 'Resident Evil' or 'Underworld' films.

 
 Posted:   Feb 13, 2017 - 3:16 PM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

Best example I can think of is the otherwise excellent 'Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid' and the wholly inapproriate score by Burt Bacharach. Very popular in its own time, ridiculously so, and nearly unfathomable today.

And still popular with me at least. One of my all-time favorite scores. It's not kitsch.

Even Bacharach's score to Casino Royale... I wouldn't call any of it kitsch. Weeeeeellllll, maybe the part with the Indians in the casino.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 13, 2017 - 5:30 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Best example I can think of is the otherwise excellent 'Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid' and the wholly inapproriate score by Burt Bacharach. Very popular in its own time, ridiculously so, and nearly unfathomable today.

Is an inappropriate score necessarily kitsch? Other than "Raindrops," I can't remember much about the score.

Another one might be 'Love Story.' We thought it was pretty dumb at the time and the score has endured, or at least, a theme.

Again, I remember the theme but not necessarily the score. The film is certainly kitsch. I don't know about the score.

 
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