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Posted: |
Oct 9, 2016 - 11:37 AM
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By: |
SoundScope
(Member)
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The six-hour, two-film version of CLEOPATRA has been the topic on many wagging tongues for years. Always a case of the footage impossible to find. And while yes, I'd be interested in seeing this magnum opus, to be sure, there are a few other tid-bits I'd be just as thankful and happy to see:
67's DOCTOR DOLITTLE with all its trims and prologue in tact.
RAINTREE COUNTY in a reassembled and complete blu-ray spectacular.
The whole "Mandy/Minstrel Show" production number from WHITE CHRISTMAS. (What, you say? Yes, there is a section that was used in the trailer from this number that is not in the finished film.)
God, what I wouldn't give for THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE 65MM negatives to be found with those famous cuts put back in. (I know, I'm probably the only one.)
PORGY AND BESS please!
ISADORA
... and many more that all of you have on your mind as well. So please, add to the list. I'm not getting any younger and can only hope something of this pipe dream will come true soon!
"...oh Bess, oh where's my bess"
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Posted: |
Oct 9, 2016 - 12:48 PM
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By: |
Bob DiMucci
(Member)
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John Huston had high hopes for his 1951 film THE RED BADGE OF COURAGE, even considering the original two-hour cut of the film as the best he had ever made as a director. After a power struggle at the top of MGM management, the film was cut from a two-hour epic to the 69-minute version released to theaters, in response to its alleged universally disastrous previews. It was never released as an "A" feature but was shown as a second-feature "B" picture. Both Huston and star Audie Murphy tried unsuccessfully to purchase the film so that it could be re-edited to its original length. Huston did not waste any time fighting over it, as he was focused on the pre-production of his next picture, THE AFRICAN QUEEN. The studio claimed that the cut footage was destroyed, probably in the 1967 MGM vault fire. Huston was later asked by MGM in 1975 if he had an original cut of the film, which the studio wanted to release. He had actually struck a 16mm print, but, by that time, it had been lost. Unless there is an undiscovered copy of the uncut version, THE RED BADGE OF COURAGE will never be viewed as John Huston intended.
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I think Porgy & Bess is tied up in all sorts of legal stuff, it doesn't look good. The trouble with all this cut-out footage of various films is that it was removed so many years ago, I'd say no chance. There's a long thread about Raintree County over at the HTF, & what we hear is the elements need a ton of work, in other words, don't hold your breath. I didn't know there was stuff cut from The Fall Of The Roman Empire (maybe the middle of the film might make more sense with it cut back in), I'm sure I read somewhere that the original cut negatives were stored at Pinewood Studios (they have a warehouse full of treasures there), will anyone ever do the work? Done properly it could be one of the best looking Blu-rays out there (ditto El Cid). But you never know what they're working on, One-Eyed Jacks came as a pleasant surprise.
As far as Fall of the Roman Empire, I seem to recall reading that some additional footage was found too late to be included in the "restored" DVD the Weinsteins put out back in 2008 I think. Whether this footage was actually in the film or not initially I don't know, but I would dearly love to see that footage.
I also second Bob's request for a restored Roadshow version of Private Life of Sherlock Holmes.
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In the thread on PORGY AND BESS, SoundScope speculated as to "What the whole LAST VALLEY looked like."
While it's true that THE LAST VALLEY was originally conceived as a roadshow release, has anything ever surfaced that suggests that a longer film was contemplated--a longer script, unused footage, etc.? Other than an intermission and some additional music, what more might have been included in the roadshow? It's never been clear when the decision was made to put the film into general release rather than roadshow it. Principal photography on the film took place from 25 August 1969 to late December 1969 in Trins, Austria and Halifax Studios, Shepperton, London. The film premiered in New York on 28 January 1971.
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Posted: |
Oct 9, 2016 - 6:07 PM
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By: |
pp312
(Member)
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I didn't know there was stuff cut from The Fall Of The Roman Empire (maybe the middle of the film might make more sense with it cut back in),
"Fall" was originally 4 hours. Where it premiered in that form I don't know, or even if it did. Here in Oz it premiered as a Roadshow at 3, but for general release was cut back to 2:20. Now if you cut a 4 hour film back to 2:20 you're going to end up with some inconsistencies, and there are still stills (still stills?) around showing scenes long removed, like that of a senator about to stab Finlay Currie in the back, which is a terrible thing to do to poor Balthasar. Personally I found the film too long at 2:20, so I'm not anxious to see a 4 hour version, though I would like to see the original cut of the Persian Battle, which is virtually incomprehensible in present form (the same can be said for Cleo's naval battle). There's something criminal in spending a motsa on these scenes and then chopping them out.
I'm currently reading George Sanders' Autobiography, written just after he did Solomon & Sheba, in which he speaks of the amount of effort that went into the battle scenes, most of which never made it to the screen. I'm sure that would have been far more interesting than watching Brynner and La Lolla pout at each other.
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Posted: |
Oct 11, 2016 - 4:23 PM
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By: |
SoundScope
(Member)
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A very good friend of mine and I have always agreed that a film (or any piece for that matter) should be as long or short as it needs to be. Which for me means, that sometimes, the longer version can actually be a better film. And yes, sometimes judicious cuts are just as effective.
I never thought much of IT'S A MAD, MAD, MAD, MAD WORLD. Then I saw the "restored" cut on laser disc and later on the Criterion Bly-ray, and thought it was a much funnier and satisfying film.
In this age of media accessibility, any version you desire should be the rule of thumb, if not for the archival benefits alone!
In the case of THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, as all pictures of this genre, we will never see the likes of them again. To have spent all that time and money only to chop it out and throw away seems such a shame and actually quite stupid. I've heard most of the stories, rumors and gossip about poor Samuel Bronston and his trouble with the DuPont's who put up some money for it. But in the end all one is left with is the notion of what could have been. And that's a real shame because what is there is pretty amazing. FALL is a much better film than it's give credit for in a lot of circles. The same can be said for CLEOPATRA.
In the end, the art and artistry of all involved should be reason enough to have saved every last bit of film, clips, trims, cuts, and tracks!
Thanks for all the "bits" you've all shared... how I love the intrigue and morsels of hope! 
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TCM used to show the complete, roadshow versions of both HAWAII and RAINTREE COUNTY.
But now, they only show the cut versions.
Lucky recorders were able to get both, but independently.
And the only instance of HAWAII released complete was on the laser, which showed a washed-out color for the additional, previously deleted scenes.
Likewise, the only complete, longer version of 1776 was the laser, though debate about the "correct" length, and version, continues.
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Similar post deleted, after server was presenting problems with access to FSM to site.
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Posted: |
Oct 13, 2016 - 11:49 AM
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By: |
joec
(Member)
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TCM used to show the complete, roadshow versions of both HAWAII and RAINTREE COUNTY.
But now, they only show the cut versions.
Lucky recorders were able to get both, but independently.
And the only instance of HAWAII released complete was on the laser, which showed a washed-out color for the additional, previously deleted scenes.
Likewise, the only complete, longer version of 1776 was the laser, though debate about the "correct" length, and version, continues.
The Twilight Time Blu-ray for HAWAII contains both versions. However the long roadshow version utilizes the old laser transfer and is not enhanced for wide screen TVs. Unfortunately, does not look very good, but at least it is available.
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