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Not sure why everyone is so excited.
Elfman is surely past his peak in terms of creativity.
His avengers work was generic as have been most of the Marvel movies. None of the marvel movies bother to have a main theme for each character.
At least these DC Films have had something close to "themes", which have been introduced then reused in multiple films, such as Zimmer's man of steel "kind of theme" and the Wonder woman theme in BvS which was reused in the Wonder Woman movie.
I remember the last time Elfman took over an existing properties theme and he had the nerve to not even bother to use the main theme titles, which was Fiedel's Terminator theme. He made a boring theme for Terminator Salvation thinking he could outdo Fiedel's iconic theme.
I wonder how WB are going to control him. Are they going to allow him to simply ignore the previous themes have been created and make his own? Or will he be forced to adapt and reuse the existing ones, which in my opinion he should since those themes are now permanent part of the characters now, especially Wonder Man and Superman.
I hope they don't mess this up.
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Posted: |
Jun 15, 2017 - 7:51 AM
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By: |
TM
(Member)
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Not sure why everyone is so excited.
Elfman is surely past his peak in terms of creativity.
His avengers work was generic as have been most of the Marvel movies. None of the marvel movies bother to have a main theme for each character.
At least these DC Films have had something close to "themes", which have been introduced then reused in multiple films, such as Zimmer's man of steel "kind of theme" and the Wonder woman theme in BvS which was reused in the Wonder Woman movie.
I remember the last time Elfman took over an existing properties theme and he had the nerve to not even bother to use the main theme titles, which was Fiedel's Terminator theme. He made a boring theme for Terminator Salvation thinking he could outdo Fiedel's iconic theme.
I wonder how WB are going to control him. Are they going to allow him to simply ignore the previous themes have been created and make his own? Or will he be forced to adapt and reuse the existing ones, which in my opinion he should since those themes are now permanent part of the characters now, especially Wonder Man and Superman.
I hope they don't mess this up.
His Avengers score factored in existing themes brilliantly and his new motif was catchy and hummable. Salvation was a essentially a reboot, not him thinking he could do better. No way he's going to be bringing back his or Williams' old themes for the characters, but he might do an interesting take on Zimmer, or they might just cut and paste Wonder woman. Superman is gonna be dead for most of the movie, right? So no theme period.
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Not sure why everyone is so excited.
Elfman is surely past his peak in terms of creativity.
His avengers work was generic as have been most of the Marvel movies. None of the marvel movies bother to have a main theme for each character.
At least these DC Films have had something close to "themes", which have been introduced then reused in multiple films, such as Zimmer's man of steel "kind of theme" and the Wonder woman theme in BvS which was reused in the Wonder Woman movie.
I remember the last time Elfman took over an existing properties theme and he had the nerve to not even bother to use the main theme titles, which was Fiedel's Terminator theme. He made a boring theme for Terminator Salvation thinking he could outdo Fiedel's iconic theme.
I wonder how WB are going to control him. Are they going to allow him to simply ignore the previous themes have been created and make his own? Or will he be forced to adapt and reuse the existing ones, which in my opinion he should since those themes are now permanent part of the characters now, especially Wonder Man and Superman.
I hope they don't mess this up.
I still don't get how anyone calls the guitar wailing in BATMAN V SUPERMAN a theme for Wonder Woman? Plus the likelihood that you get your wish, a theme for each character, is more likely to occur in JUSTICE LEAGUE and a Danny Elfman score if BATMAN V SUPERMAN is any indication. Seriously, I cannot tell you what the new Batman theme is and I have scoured the BVS score multiple times. The only theme in the entire film is the one from MAN OF STEEL.
My guess is that the keys have been handed over to Joss Whedon and he and Danny Elfman will "control" the music as they see fit.
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Posted: |
Jun 15, 2017 - 8:07 AM
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By: |
Solium
(Member)
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Not sure why everyone is so excited.
Elfman is surely past his peak in terms of creativity.
His avengers work was generic as have been most of the Marvel movies. None of the marvel movies bother to have a main theme for each character.
At least these DC Films have had something close to "themes", which have been introduced then reused in multiple films, such as Zimmer's man of steel "kind of theme" and the Wonder woman theme in BvS which was reused in the Wonder Woman movie.
I remember the last time Elfman took over an existing properties theme and he had the nerve to not even bother to use the main theme titles, which was Fiedel's Terminator theme. He made a boring theme for Terminator Salvation thinking he could outdo Fiedel's iconic theme.
I wonder how WB are going to control him. Are they going to allow him to simply ignore the previous themes have been created and make his own? Or will he be forced to adapt and reuse the existing ones, which in my opinion he should since those themes are now permanent part of the characters now, especially Wonder Man and Superman.
I hope they don't mess this up.
I still don't get how anyone calls the guitar wailing in BATMAN V SUPERMAN a theme for Wonder Woman? Plus the likelihood that you get your wish, a theme for each character, is more likely to occur in JUSTICE LEAGUE and a Danny Elfman score if BATMAN V SUPERMAN is any indication. Seriously, I cannot tell you what the new Batman theme is and I have scoured the BVS score multiple times. The only theme in the entire film is the one from MAN OF STEEL.
My guess is that the keys have been handed over to Joss Whedon and he and Danny Elfman will "control" the music as they see fit.
It's already stated the film was essentially finished. I think the tone and atmosphere are set in stone. I'm guessing re-shoots are to "add some levity", but it won't make a substantial difference over all.
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Posted: |
Jun 15, 2017 - 8:29 AM
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By: |
davefg
(Member)
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Certainly an interesting twist, but hard to know what it means now. I would like to think it means WB/DC are loosening up a bit. I've found their films so far (I haven't seen "Wonder Woman" yet) to be dreary, self-serious, and overproduced, loud instead of exciting, gray instead of stylish.
Elfman, of course, composes in many styles, so it's impossible at this point to know which direction he'll go. But presumably, they did not let Holkenborg go so that Elfman could do a Holkenborg impression.
Agree 100%.
Some thoughts, which are pure speculation.
There are two possible scenarios as to why Junkie XL left. First Snyder’s departure at such a late stage may have given Whedon more creative control over the process as part of the deal of signing on. The film is locked in for a November release and any push back may have implications for WB studio’s bottom line. With this freedom and know how Whedon was able to make some changes to the film, the score been one of them. For Whedon Junkie XL could not deliver a score on par with Alan Silvestri or Danny Elfman.
WB executives wanted a different tone for Justice League. After the critical savaging of BvS and Suicide Squad and more importantly the implications that such damage could do to future superheroes in the DC stable, Junkie XL was asked and was unable to provide a score that reflected this new reality. Without Snyder or Zimmer, Junkie XL really had no one to defend him.
What to expect from Whedon?
Correct me if I am wrong, but I read that Whedon had asked Silvestri to tone the heroics in the first Avengers film? Also there was no reference in the score to The Incredible Hulk (Armstrong), Thor (Doyle) or Captain America: The First Avenger (Silvestri) which preceded the first Avengers. The second Avengers had only a brief smattering of music from Captain America: The First Avenger, Thor: The Dark World (Tyler) and Iron Man 3 (Tyler) from what I recall. So in terms of thematic continuality, the Avengers films helmed by Whedon are quite disappointing.
That said Elfman’s theme from Batman and the Superman March by Williams are the two greatest pieces of music IMO that have been written for any superhero. If the WW theme is been kept than it would be logical that other members of the JL would have their own themes. The question is whether Elfman will be allowed or wants to bring back this themes for the Flash and Batman or asked to write new music for the characters. As for Superman, Williams March is a classic and if the films are going to have a new tone then that might be brought back as well.
I don’t think Elfman is past it “past his peak in terms of creativity”, though I wonder whether he wants to revisit his classic era.
"Maybe the MV sound has run its course...” Might be some truth is this. Domination of one kind of another in different spheres of life usually end with a revolution. We’ve seen different genres of films and music that have dominated only to lose appeal later on from some new revolutionary trend/director or artist. The same can also be said with film music.
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Posted: |
Jun 15, 2017 - 8:42 AM
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By: |
John Mullin
(Member)
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Not sure why everyone is so excited.
Elfman is surely past his peak in terms of creativity.
Oh, I disagree with that. I think his big budget popcorn scores haven't been as interesting as they used to be in the last couple years BUT his smaller films and concert works have been stellar. I totally love THE GIRL ON THE TRAIN... it's a new kind of sound for him and very creative. That's one of the best he's done in years. Since the musical landscape for the modern DC movies has been a little experimental to date, I actually kinda hope that he'll have some leeway to do something interesting on JUSTICE LEAGUE, but it sounds like the film is coming in for a crashing landing, so we'll see!
I thought it was brilliant how he incorporated the Silvestri theme in AVENGERS 2. I didn't think much of the AVENGERS 2 score overall, but it was such a train wreck (many composers using different themes, plus tracked music from part 1) that I don't think ANYONE would have been able to pull it all together!
I remember the last time Elfman took over an existing properties theme and he had the nerve to not even bother to use the main theme titles, which was Fiedel's Terminator theme. He made a boring theme for Terminator Salvation thinking he could outdo Fiedel's iconic theme.
I understand what you're saying, however I think TERMINATOR 4 is an awesome score and the main theme clearly does owe a lot to Fidel's theme (intentionally so). I would guess his approach on that movie was similar to how he approached RED DRAGON: Where he neither wanted to try to duplicate what Howard Shore had memorably done on SILENCE OF THE LAMBS nor did he want to pretend that that score didn't exist at all. Also, you're aware, that Marco Beltrami scored TERMINATOR 3 and didn't use the original theme much either, right?
Speaking of Beltrami, if you're miffed that he didn't reuse the Beltrami theme from HELLBOY 1 when scoring HELLBOY 2, you've probably got a valid point there. I like what he did with HELLBOY 2 a lot, but the original theme sort of felt like it should have been in there somewhere.
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I still love the opening titles sequence for HULK with Elfman's music. It's really crazy good. Very Herrmann-like in how he works that 6 note motif quite well throughout. Ang Lee's HULK is still my favourite of the outings with that character but it's seriously flawed. Third act is a mess and Bana was never a good Banner. But Elfman;s score was terrific. Great, now I have to play it! Catchy as hell.
No disrespect to Junkie XL but I've yet to hear something as catchy and defined from him, though the WW "theme" definitely is memorable.
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