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Scores that are in desperate need of a new/any release: NON-James Bond scores.
Scores that are not at all in need of another release: ALL James Bond scores.
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Boy, it must really torture you to know how much people love the Bond scores and how most film music fans still want them in complete form.
No. It's not torture. More of a constant source of amusement.
Will you people get a life?
Isn't it funny that the scores most asked for are the most conventional (be it Barry or Williams), and the ones that have already seen tons of releases, and re-recordings. Even among "pirates" (i.e. file sharers), it appears that the best-covered, least imaginative selections/collections are the "go to" choices.
Seems to me that the average film score lover goes for the already best-known score before he/she EVER asks for a new, however mildly original, new choice.
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Posted: |
Dec 12, 2013 - 10:12 AM
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By: |
Diederik
(Member)
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Boy, it must really torture you to know how much people love the Bond scores and how most film music fans still want them in complete form.
No. It's not torture. More of a constant source of amusement.
Will you people get a life?
Isn't it funny that the scores most asked for are the most conventional (be it Barry or Williams), and the ones that have already seen tons of releases, and re-recordings. Even among "pirates" (i.e. file sharers), it appears that the best-covered, least imaginative selections/collections are the "go to" choices.
Seems to me that the average film score lover goes for the already best-known score before he/she EVER asks for a new, however mildly original, new choice.
And that will also be a prime reason for most labels to keep releasing those titles. There is more money to be made with them than with the more obscure, or as you put it "imaginative", soundtracks. Not that I really mind this either way, but the situation just seems so logical: The beaten path is also the most popular.
Oh, and on the topic of Bond expansions: I cannot imagine new expanded releases offering better value for money than the current remastered-and-expanded albums have to offer. They are just so cheap, especially when compared to what the specialty labels mostly ask (not that their prices are unreasonable or anything).
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Isn't it funny that the scores most asked for are the most conventional (be it Barry or Williams), and the ones that have already seen tons of releases, and re-recordings. Even among "pirates" (i.e. file sharers), it appears that the best-covered, least imaginative selections/collections are the "go to" choices.
Seems to me that the average film score lover goes for the already best-known score before he/she EVER asks for a new, however mildly original, new choice.
Congratulations. You now understand the market.
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Yes. And, so sad. 
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It's appropriate for both.
Let the record show that I appreciate and admire JB's scores for the James Bond franchise, and many others of his scores - while being fully aware of his limitations as a composer. On occasion, these did show. Mostly, they didn't.
However, there is no reason, and that's reason as in common sense, why any of these scores should be re-released in ever-so-slightly extended form, before TONS of other, probably not more deserving, but more relevant, as in less-previously-exposed, other scores have been.
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Posted: |
Dec 12, 2013 - 11:27 AM
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By: |
CinemaScope
(Member)
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It's appropriate for both.
Let the record show that I appreciate and admire JB's scores for the James Bond franchise, and many others of his scores - while being fully aware of his limitations as a composer. On occasion, these did show. Mostly, they didn't.
However, there is no reason, and that's reason as in common sense, why any of these scores should be re-released in ever-so-slightly extended form, before TONS of other, probably not more deserving, but more relevant, as in less-previously-exposed, other scores have been.
I think that's a bit daft, an ever-so-slightly extended Bond release won't stop another (more relevant - what ever than means) release happening, it could help it if the record company make a bit of money. And I'm not aware of JB's limitations as a composer, but each to his own.
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These are classic scores. I'd love for Moonraker, The Man With The Golden Gun, The Spy Who Loved Me, etc, to get the deluxe edition treatment.
Cheers
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To be honest I think all composers have limitations of sorts, even if its just that they have certain recurring habits.
I'm a huge John Barry fan as you know. He's my favourite of film composers and author of my favourite film scores.
He really knew how to complement a film with music and write music that gets under people's skin. Witness how many people love scores like Out Of Africa and Somewhere In Time.
That said, I don't think it's awful to admit that you can 'see' that there is a more complete, classical 'music for orchestra' schooling in the works of composers such as Rosza and Goldsmith. It's not that Barry's music is in any way second best, it's just I think you can 'see' that there is a more complete, classical schooling at play in their works. For example, how adeptly Goldsmith used varying and more complex time signatures while Barry stuck so much more to simpler time signatures. It's not that there's anything wrong with simpler time signatures. It's just an example of how Goldsmith demonstrated more complexity as a composer.
It has no bearing on how much I love the man's music, though. Whilst his training in music for orchestra might not have been as classical as a Rosza or a Goldsmith, he had genuine strengths for creating compelling movie music, which paid off handsomely for him and won him a significant following. It's what won me over.
What Barry was undeniably excellent at was the specific medium of film.
So, yes, I am, bizarrely, conceding a little to OnlyGoodMusic's point.
But, comparisons of technical skill aside, it doesn't take away from the point that Barry is a much loved composer and these Bond scores are classic scores well worth an expansion.
Cheers
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The beauty of the film score market is that there are dozens of labels; some regular commercial labels, some specialty labels, and others niche market labels which carter to markets likes score fans who want complete scores and more obscure work. That's more than enough for every score to get a chance on CD as physically and legally possible.
There is no need for the Bond scores to take a back seat so that something else that has not been released, can. There is no zero-sum market; you don't fill one slot and take it away from another title -- there are other labels and there is no fixed amount of anual titles.
So I say bring on BOTH.
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Posted: |
Dec 12, 2013 - 12:23 PM
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By: |
Alex Klein
(Member)
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To be honest I think all composers have limitations of sorts, even if its just that they have certain recurring habits.
I'm a huge John Barry fan as you know. He's my favourite of film composers and author of my favourite film scores.
He really knew how to complement a film with music and write music that gets under people's skin. Witness how many people love scores like Out Of Africa and Somewhere In Time.
That said, I don't think it's awful to admit that you can 'see' that there is a more complete, classical 'music for orchestra' schooling in the works of composers such as Rosza and Goldsmith. It's not that Barry's music is in any way second best, it's just I think you can 'see' that there is a more complete, classical schooling at play in their works. For example, how adeptly Goldsmith used varying and more complex time signatures while Barry stuck so much more to simpler time signatures. It's not that there's anything wrong with simpler time signatures. It's just an example of how Goldsmith demonstrated more complexity as a composer.
It has no bearing on how much I love the man's music, though. Whilst his training in music for orchestra might not have been as classical as a Rosza or a Goldsmith, he had genuine strengths for creating compelling movie music, which paid off handsomely for him and won him a significant following. It's what won me over.
What Barry was undeniably excellent at was the specific medium of film.
So, yes, I am, bizarrely, conceding a little to OnlyGoodMusic's point.
But, comparisons of technical skill aside, it doesn't take away from the point that Barry is a much loved composer and these Bond scores are classic scores well worth an expansion.
Cheers
EVERY composer has limitations. Your observations regarding Barry's non-classical education are definitely correct, but this peculiar musical training he had is what made him so special. Barry is perhaps the most intuitive of all famous film composers and that's one of the reasons his writing was so original.
That being said, Barry did have more training in writing for chorus than Goldsmith did. So, really, we could go on and on about this without taking anything away from their accomplishments. Thank goodness all composers have different strengths and weaknesses. In the end, this is what makes a composer's voice to be personal.
One only wishes that people like OnlyGoodMusic could see this as a characteristic of every artist's work and not necessarily as a weakness. This board member is clearly too contaminated with the type of academia that cannot see beyond technique.
Alex
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EVERY composer has limitations. Your observations regarding Barry's non-classical education are definitely correct, but this peculiar musical training he had is what made him so special. Barry is perhaps the most intuitive of all famous film composers and that's one of the reasons his writing was so original.
That being said, Barry did have more training in writing for chorus than Goldsmith did. So, really, we could go on and on about this without taking anything away from their accomplishments. Thank goodness all composers have different strengths and weaknesses. In the end, this is what makes a composer's voice to be personal.
Well said, Alex. Very much what I was thinking.
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Posted: |
Dec 12, 2013 - 1:46 PM
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By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
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Limitation? No, it's called VOICE.
This is precisely it. Honestly, this is all a bit ridiculous. OnlyGoodMusic has proclaimed himself the arbiter of good taste and is telling others here what is worthy of their listening. That he expresses it with the disdain of the allegedly intellectual does not make his (or her) point any less inane. Enjoy what you enjoy, and don't let anybody tell you not to. We buy these CDs to listen to; they're not required to have any higher calling than our own pleasure.
Me, I'm quite satisfied with the Bond CDs I have, and have no interest in further expansions. But that doesn't mean I agree with OnlyGoodMusic.
We may admire a composer for having a breadth of styles -- that is, for not being "limited" -- but I don't see how lacking that should in any way impact one's satisfaction in listening to a specific piece of music. We return to favorite composers not because their style is unrecognizable from piece to piece, but rather because we like that style and want to hear more. Doesn't matter if that's Bach or the Beatles or Barry.
To get this back on track, I recently sat through "Moonraker" with my kids, and aside from the pre-credit music, there really didn't seem to be a lot of music in the film that's not on the CD.
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I'm a little surprised to see people requesting further expansions of the Bond scores from the 60s, Thunderball aside, since really there isn't much (if anything!) left to expand them by. As far as I know, all that's survived of the first three scores (Dr. No, From Russia With Love, and Goldfinger) has been released, and we have the complete scores for You Only Live Twice through Live & Let Die as well. There might be one or two bits missing from On Her Majesty's Secret Service, but I know that film pretty darn well and I can't think of anything specific. As for Thunderball, yes, there are some cues yet to be released (like Fiona taking Bond for a ride), and it would be great to have everything, but overall there really is very little missing from Thunderball.
For Your Eyes Only and The Living Daylights are also complete, as far as I know, and the complete score for Casino Royale has been released digitally. (We do still need the film version of Chris Cornell's You Know My Name though.)
EDIT: For Your Eyes Only and The Living Daylights are actually NOT complete. See JB Fan's post for more details. 
So what else remains that truly needs expanding? Most of the 70s and 80s films, including The Man with the Golden Gun, The Spy Who Loved Me, Moonraker (masters rumored to be lost?), Octopussy, A View to a Kill, and Licence to Kill. Apart from The Man with the Golden Gun, I've detailed specifically which cues are missing from these films in this thread: http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?pageID=28&forumID=1&threadID=95139&archive=0
There are a handful of cues missing from GoldenEye, including the gun-barrel and dam jump, Bond's arrival in St. Petersburg, and Bond and Natalya's escape from the Tiger helicopter. But really no more than is missing from Thunderball, I should think. Oh, and there's also John Altman's version of the tank chase, but a solid rerecording of this track was released as part of Bond Back In Action 2.
Tomorrow Never Dies and The World is Not Enough each have quite a few more tracks missing. Notable omissions from Tomorrow Never Dies include the opening jet fight, the printing press fight, the Goldfinger-inspired James Bond theme that plays when Bond drives to the Hotel Atlantic, the air base music, the banner jump, part of the stealth boat finale, and the party tracks that I believe were composed by somebody other than Arnold. The World is Not Enough is missing the gun-barrel and escape from the banker's office, the Millenium dome fall, skiing with Elektra, Renard's introduction, Elektra's game with Zukovsky, Bond's arrival in Kazakhstan, the sub's arrival at Maiden's Tower, M activating the locator card, Bullion's briefcase blowing up, the end credits, and more.
Die Another Day has an enormous amount of music missing. More than any other James Bond score. I'm not even going to bother listing specific scenes, but I should think hearing this score in full would be something of an eye-opener (an ear-opener?) for any who previously might have dismissed it as a misguided foray into electronica. Some tracks are perhaps too synthesizer heavy for their own good, but there is a lot of really good orchestral work in this score as well, and some dynamite action tracks missing from the OST.
As far as I know, Quantum of Solace is only missing the brief action track when Bond evades capture by the CIA after meeting Leiter at the bar and the gun-barrel closing. So, the OST is pretty darn complete.
I'm less familiar with Skyfall. Most of the key material from the film is represented on the OST, but there are a handful of tracks missing, including that Herrmann-esque moment when Bond climbs into the Shanghai tower, the James Bond theme that accompanies Silva's capture, and an atmospheric cue when Silva is doing his CGI-Gollum thang.
So that's roughly what we're looking at for unreleased James Bond music.
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