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LOG IN Forgot Login? Register General Discussion • Trading Post • Non-Film Score Discussion  Profile • Preferences • Community Rules • Help/Contact • Search Board Search Terms:  Search Within:  topics posts since 2019 2018 posts 2017 posts 2016 posts 2015 posts 2014 posts 2013 posts 2012 posts 2011 posts 2010 posts 2009 posts 2008 posts 2007 posts 2006 posts 2005 posts 2004 posts 2003 posts 2002 posts 2001 posts 2000 posts users  search tips  You must log in or register to post.   Go to page:  1 2 3      General Discussion: HOOK = AGNES OF GOD Has someone noticed that too?     1 2 3    NEXT   LAST   Last Post   Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 6:22 AM     By:   Luigi   (Member) There is a theme from AGNES OF GOD from Georges Delerue that is the same on HOOK from John Williams. According to the film's year release, Mr. Williams took Mr. Delerues' theme and adapted to HOOK BTW, a really touching theme. One of the best from HOOK which I like more the way John Williams has scored it, IMHO. - YOU ARE THE PAN - Any thoughts on that, folks?    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 6:30 AM     By:   LeHah   (Member) Eh, Ive seen this before. David Arnold's Wing Commander march was a b-theme in an old anime movie. Does that mean Arnold saw it and copied it down, thinking he could get away with cutting corners? Highly unlikely. The same goes for this. Its what us ed-u-ma-cated types call a "co-inky-dink".    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 6:44 AM     By:   DavidCoscina   (Member) Eh, Ive seen this before. David Arnold's Wing Commander march was a b-theme in an old anime movie. Does that mean Arnold saw it and copied it down, thinking he could get away with cutting corners? Highly unlikely. The same goes for this. Its what us ed-u-ma-cated types call a "co-inky-dink". Actually, I think Spielberg used it as temp for the "You Are the Pan" scene and Williams was asked not to deviate too much from the Delerue original. It's too close in terms of the harmonic setting and the choice of muted strings/solo flute to be coincidence. Spielberg also must have temped Korngold's Sea Hawk on "Hooknapped" because there is a small section right out of that as well. At least with that I can forgive Williams/Spielberg because it's somewhat of an homage to the pirate swashbuckler genre. The Agnes of God is a little harder to get past, mainly because Delerue's score is so beautiful and moving.    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 6:50 AM     By:   Dadid L   (Member) There're not the SAME theme, certainly, but they have much in common. Maybe Delerue was temp-tracked, and Williams obliged... as Quincy Jones before him ! But PAN can be easily recognized as Williams music, too. Influence, not plagiarim.    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 6:50 AM     By:   LeHah   (Member) David & jack - Being absolutely unfamiliar with Agnes Of God, you'll have to pardon my stoic skepticism on this topic.    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 7:22 AM     By:   Luigi   (Member) Hmmm. I didn't know Spielberg had temp tracked that. But it's a good answer to the question. It looks like Williams has improved Delerue's theme. Not that I think Georges Delerue's theme is poor. They're both great    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 8:08 AM     By:   cushinglee   (Member) Could Spielberg have maybe HIRED Delerue at least once rather than shackle Williams and Q to his work? Funny, I recall Quincy saying somewhere that Williams insists that any temp track given to him must only include work by dead composers! I don't recall if Delerue had passed by the time Hook came along.    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 11:45 AM     By:   nuts_score   (Member) The same goes for this. Its what us ed-u-ma-cated types call a "co-inky-dink". Coincidences in music?! Bahahahaahahahahah! Hardly. And then he goes to say he's not familiar with the source! Now, I know we're all ed-u-ma-cated in the realm that Spielberg/Lucas work within "The Temp Score Zone". Come on, man!    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 11:47 AM     By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member) It's unfortunate that even Spielberg isn't above the temp track disease. The worst examples of this, in both Lucas and Spielberg's 2002 films, were the shameless Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon lifts. To use them in Minority Report is one thing, but freaking Star Wars? As my Aunt Linda would say, "Whah?"    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 11:51 AM     By:   shureman   (Member) Hook came out in '91; Delerue died in '92.    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 12:36 PM     By:   franz_conrad   (Member) Considering AGNES was an Oscar nominated score, it would have been known to Spielberg. And after all, there is another Spielberg film that features a literal copy of a Delerue theme. (THE COLOR PURPLE.)    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 1:09 PM     By:   Matt B   (Member) Being absolutely unfamiliar with Agnes Of God, you'll have to pardon my stoic skepticism on this topic. "Although I am absolutely unfamiliar with Agnes Of God and therefore entirely unqualified to comment on this post, I still thought I should have an opinion here."    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 1:29 PM     By:   Thor D Faxton   (Member) They were both copied from the "Hook of God"    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 2:14 PM     By:   Luigi   (Member) Considering AGNES was an Oscar nominated score, it would have been known to Spielberg. And after all, there is another Spielberg film that features a literal copy of a Delerue theme. (THE COLOR PURPLE.) Hey franz_conrad, what score from Georges Delerue is similar to THE COLOR PURPLE?    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 2:16 PM     By:   Zooba   (Member) Considering AGNES was an Oscar nominated score, it would have been known to Spielberg. And after all, there is another Spielberg film that features a literal copy of a Delerue theme. (THE COLOR PURPLE.) Hey franz_conrad, what score from Georges Delerue is similar to THE COLOR PURPLE? I believe the score in question is OUR MOTHER'S HOUSE. A part of the Main Title Theme is somewhat similar in sound and style: http://www.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm?ID=3459 Here you can hear John Williams playing Quincy Jones' Theme for THE COLOR PURPLE: http://mp3.rhapsody.com/johnwilliams/cinemaserenade    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 3:15 PM     By:   TerraEpon   (Member) FWIW, I remember this being pointed out a number of times before (such as when the 2CD Delerue set on Varese came out). But isn't it possible that it's an homage? Not every 'very close similarity' is a bad thing...    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 3:51 PM     By:   Thor   (Member) Actually, I think Spielberg used it as temp for the "You Are the Pan" scene and Williams was asked not to deviate too much from the Delerue original. It's too close in terms of the harmonic setting and the choice of muted strings/solo flute to be coincidence. Excuse my channelling of Ford here, but do you pull this info out of your ass? I have no reason to believe any such temp track was used - not only because I don't think the similarity is that clear beyond a superficial stylistic, CO-INCIDENTAL similarity, but also because it's so bloody unlikely! It's no reason to speculate either way, as there's no way to verify it unless you know someone in the production process. If you find some similarity in your mind between the two pieces, good for you. But please don't turn it into some "common fact".    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 3:53 PM     By:   Luigi   (Member) Indeed THE COLOR PURPLE is quite similar to OUR MOTHER'S HOUSE, but not so much as HOOK=AGNES OF GOD. I don't think THE COLOR PURPLE was temp tracked with that. QUINCY JONES's similar theme is just a coincidence, IMO. But with HOOK, it's clear they probably temp tracked for John Williams and he ended up using that. I would say this doesn't bother me at all. Both themes are great and if it works for the scene, why not using it? I was just curious    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 4:32 PM     By:   DavidCoscina   (Member) post deleted    Posted:   Nov 12, 2008 - 4:34 PM     By:   spielboy   (Member) I dont know about temp tracks... but the early Jack Banning jazzistic theme is Grusin 200%.     General Discussion: HOOK = AGNES OF GOD Has someone noticed that too?    < 1 2 3  > >>  Go to page:  1 2 3   First Post    General Discussion • Trading Post • Non-Film Score Discussion  Profile • Preferences • Community Rules • Help/Contact • Search Board You must log in or register to post.   Go to page:  1 2 3

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