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 Posted:   May 23, 2022 - 2:01 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

This one gets an unprecedented amount of flack, mainly because it dares to share disc space with his acclaimed 60s gothic thriller score SECONDS*
Yes, it is an unwieldy pairing on one CD, but one I'm sure was done due to licensing issues/possibilities.
But the beauty of CD is that you can play one score or the other SEPARATELY, when the mood/need suits YOU.
Taken ON ITS OWN, it's a rather pleasant, light Goldsmith frothy comedy score, a genre I feel didn't always best suit the composer.
Some umbrage has also been taken due to the fact Goldsmith uses Twinkle Twinkle Little Star (or is it Baa Baa Black Sheep) as the main theme.
Plus, the snazzy/rhythm band Doo-Wop moments can also be...jarring!!??
For sure, it's a mixed bag, but when I play it, I enjoy it way more than other Goldsmith comedy scores, such as S*P*Y*S or FIERCE CREATURES or MR BASEBALL or LOONY TUNES BIA.
The lovely moments, when they cut through, are REALLY lovely and display that side of Goldsmith that I always dug from SEBASTIAN, a score this often reminds me of.
So, lets hear some LOVE for this unfairly lambasted music soundtrack!!


* but not anymore, so now you have an I.Q CD all of its own.

 
 Posted:   May 23, 2022 - 2:10 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

I don't actually have I.Q., but I've heard it and found it harmless but enjoyable. (I love FIERCE CREATURES, actually, that is one underrated score.) I mean, it's the type of movie that needs an pleasant, charming off-beat score, not a seminal masterpiece like PLANET OF THE APES.

 
 
 Posted:   May 23, 2022 - 2:33 AM   
 By:   fmfan1   (Member)

I don't actually have I.Q., but I've heard it and found it harmless but enjoyable. (I love FIERCE CREATURES, actually, that is one underrated score.) I mean, it's the type of movie that needs an pleasant, charming off-beat score, not a seminal masterpiece like PLANET OF THE APES.

Seminal? Did you misspell "simial"? wink

I.Q. does indeed have some charming parts. Some breezy fun in between listening to The Omen and Alien. I have to say that the nursery rhyme song does grate a bit. I haven't seen the film, so it may work well in context.

Fierce Creatures is definitely an underrated score. Talk about charming!

 
 
 Posted:   May 23, 2022 - 2:49 AM   
 By:   moolik   (Member)

As I said in the SECONDS post...I think it is quite OK.After listening to it again after some time.It probably works really well with the movie.
There are some nice Goldsmithian comedy parts.Light and tender.Some even reminiscent of TROUBLE WITH ANGELS...The only thing that bothers me big time is that TWINKLE TWINKLE theme...and of course saxophone suckssmile( Except for TAXI DRIVER)
But nevertheless...a decent score.There are far worse Goldsmithssmile

 
 
 Posted:   May 23, 2022 - 2:57 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

I actually really dislike FIERCE CREATURES.
I've heard it in the film and also via a friend's CD copy and gave it the occasional go on YouTube/Spotify, but it's probably in the bottom 3 of my All Time JG Great Un-Liked (with S*P*Y*S and SHAMUS).

 
 Posted:   May 23, 2022 - 3:34 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)


Fierce Creatures is definitely an underrated score. Talk about charming!


Yes, I like FIERCE CREATURES a lot, it's wonderfully melodic and more of a chamber orchestra score. The album fleshes out some cues from the movie and is just perfect.

I like S*P*Y*S and SHAMUS too (though not as much as FIERCE CREATURES). The only Goldsmith score I don't like is ANGIE really.

 
 Posted:   May 23, 2022 - 4:09 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

I don't doubt for a minute it's bang on the right score for the movie.

However, it's something that really doesn't appeal to me on disc. It's just not the kind of music I enjoy.

Cheers

 
 Posted:   May 23, 2022 - 1:30 PM   
 By:   Diederik   (Member)

I.Q. always manages to put a smile on my face. The film does so as well actually. The score is fun and sincere, and hits just the right tone within the sweet movie. A great little comedy score!

The Fred Schepisi collaborations really showed a different side of Goldsmith. They must've liked working together, considering they collaborated on 5 projects in less than 10 years time. Those films provided Goldsmith with a nice change of pace, and make for quite a unique collection of scores within his body of work.

 
 
 Posted:   May 23, 2022 - 6:43 PM   
 By:   patrick_runkle   (Member)

IQ is a great score, always has been. I recorded parts of it off the VHS onto a cassette for my Walkman after the Milan (I think?) album got canceled.

The cheese factor hasn't ever really bothered me, although I recognize it is there. Other than that, I'm not sure what the score's detractors are really complaining about or what they think it should sound like. There are some other scores he wrote in the 90s (especially for lightweight movies) that could be fairly criticized as misguided or anemic, but this isn't one of them.

 
 
 Posted:   May 23, 2022 - 7:06 PM   
 By:   villagardens553   (Member)

I don't like it. What it's paired with doesn't matter. And that's okay. I think because of the nature of schedules, deadlines, working too much--it is a JOB, after all--film composers should be judged by their best work.

 
 
 Posted:   May 24, 2022 - 12:11 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

I don't hear any 'lack of quality' from too much work or schedule problems in this score.
His work for Schepisi was very 'of a certain style'.
I would venture Goldsmith probably enjoyed scoring these films way beyond many of his popular/fan favourite efforts.
The 5* films they worked on together - in a row - all contain a different side of Goldsmith.
They're all unique...off-beat.
I would say he brought more to some of these films than that of his latter day action/thriller scores, which sound more...wile not phoned-in, certainly going through the motions and punching for time.
While I don't really love all the scores he did with Schepisi (and I dislike Fierce Creatures), I appreciate the left turns he took while doing them.





*The Russia House, Mr Baseball, Six Degrees Of Separation, I.Q. Fierce Creatures.

 
 Posted:   May 24, 2022 - 1:10 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)




*The Russia House, Mr Baseball, Six Degrees Of Separation, I.Q. Fierce Creatures.


While I enjoy them all, of those, I actually like FIERCE CREATURES the most. Six Degrees of Separation and I.Q. I don't own as soundtracks though. There was not a lot of music in Six Degrees of Separation (and interesting movie really), but it did not need much either.

Gene Siskel pointed out in his review for Mr. Baseball (in this clip at 3:07) that the thing he enjoyed most about the movie was the film score by veteran composer Jerry Goldsmith.



 
 
 Posted:   May 24, 2022 - 1:41 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

I played MR BASEBALL quite recently and while it will never trouble any Top 50 or 100 (or 200!!!) JG lists, it wasn't as bad as I thought at the time.
The Love Theme is nice and Swing Away (I think that's the track title) gets the juices flowing.
The silly 'baseball call sign' is just that...silly...with cheese on top.

Maybe you have to be a Yank? wink

 
 Posted:   Jun 1, 2022 - 11:57 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I've heard this is a perfect score, in the film (which I still need to see).

That said, on album all the "Twinkle Twinkle" quotes drive me up a wall, and the doo-wop isn't much better in terms of listening experience. Sadly those two elements feel like the make up the majority of the score. I will say that the final cue is quite lovely, though!

But yeah this is easily one of my least-played Goldsmith scores, I'm sorry to say. I've always gone right to Seconds instead (and now I won't have to, since Quartet put out a new and improved Seconds by itself).

I don't have a problem with Goldsmith comedy scores. Mr. Baseball has less in it which annoys me (and can easily be improved by programming out some of the baseball stuff), and a really lovely love theme. SPYS I find to be an utter delight... especially the Russian theme but I don't even hate the "SPIIIIIESSS" chorus any more.

I will never understand the general dislike of Fierce Creatures which I think is quite creative, solid, and engaging all the way through (though it would be nice to get the actual film score proper some day). I agree 100% with Nicolai and fmfam1 that it is extremely underrated, and it's my second favorite score he did for Schepisi after The Russia House.

Looney Tunes: Back in Action is utterly brilliant IMO, though I realize it isn't for everyone. (But goodness how could you not love those two western action cues??)

Kev, I thought you liked Shamus fine as a composition, but the extreme prominence of the triangle in the (only available) mono mix was what drove you up a wall.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Jun 1, 2022 - 1:50 PM   
 By:   W. David Lichty [Lorien]   (Member)

I've heard this is a perfect score, in the film (which I still need to see).

Having seen the film twice, I'd have to say that it is exactly that. Weirdly, even with that being the case, it's not a very good movie. It's got a fair amount going for it, an effective score; it's charming and well-acted, but weirdly inert. I compare it with Roxanne, which is treading similar ground, but so much more engagingly.


That said, on album all the "Twinkle Twinkle" quotes drive me up a wall, and the doo-wop isn't much better in terms of listening experience.

It trips a general wire with me, that stuff. I rarely enjoy, in fact I'm rarely not distracted by a score frequently incorporating, or based on, a song I know. I need one more film to employ "When Johnny Comes Marching Home" again like I need a slower, dumber remake of Poltergeist III.



I will never understand the general dislike of Fierce Creatures which I think is quite creative, solid, and engaging all the way through (though it would be nice to get the actual film score proper some day). I agree 100% with Nicolai and fmfam1 that it is extremely underrated, and it's my second favorite score he did for Schepisi after The Russia House.

It's my top, in that group. It's such a singular sound for Goldsmith, but it was such an easy one to let play on repeat at work, and it really grew on me. I was veryglad when he picked it out of a stack of many, many covers as one to sign for me.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2022 - 1:15 AM   
 By:   moolik   (Member)

Yes this TWINKLE TWINKLE and DOOWAHP DI DOOP is not a cool tune you want to hear...Its almost embarassing to listen to( especially when other people are around) smile
But as I said earlier..it works well in the movie and has some great TROUBLE WITH ANGELS vibes in some parts.
I was never a big fan of incorporation of folk or song tunes....the only time it works for me, because its a storytelling thing is in CLOSE ENCOUNTERS , when we hear "When you wish upon a star".Which makes sense for Roy Neary`s Character

But for example, that´s why I dont like a lot of Max Steiner work.He is playing too much with this kinda thing.That brings me to GONE WITH THE WIND.I tried to watch it..and man this movie is so bad in my opinion.Characters are all unsympathetic and the music ( I know its a classic) I found horrible..to schmalzy and every second there is music.Its like one cant breath...An overrated picture and music.
I almost say the same thing about CASABLANCA in a way...very thin story if you look at it..

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2022 - 1:44 AM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

The usage of (or falling-back upon) a well-known musical phrase is what many of us listeners consider grunt-worthy and it can ruin the entire album experience.

Three of the most disappointing Goldsmith soundtracks (to me) are a direct result of:

-) "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" in I.Q.
-) the organ fanfare 'charge' in Mr. Baseball
-) "Amen" in Lilies of the Field

If Kevin McGann wishes his little star to twinkle, then we'll leave him to his I.Q..
I'm glad, though, that Goldsmith was never commissioned to provide music for Barney the Purple Dinosaur or the Teletubbies.

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2022 - 2:29 AM   
 By:   Ratatouille   (Member)

And what about Six degrees of separation ?

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2022 - 6:29 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

Actually, I enjoy when composers take themes, folk tunes, other melodies, and do new stuff with it, not just film composers, but also classical composers of course, like Mahler, Copland, Tchaikovsky, Bartok, Schnittke etc, who all quoted other composers and/or folksy melodies.

"Twinkle, Twinkle" is an old English Lullaby for children, so it is a very simple and naive little tune to put kids to sleep with. I don't understand why people have a problem with it, it seems to me just right to underline a charming movie of Albert Einstein trying to hook up his intellectual niece with a mechanic. It's the very simplicity AND familiarity of the song that is the very point and at the heart of this score, I would say. It's not supposed to be an "original" theme, it's supposed to be recognized as the simple children's song that it is, to characterize a particular part of Matthau's Albert Einstein personality.

I.Q. may not be an eternal masterpiece, but it's a charming film score. (But, as I said, I don't have it on CD, I only know it from the context of the movie.)

 
 Posted:   Jun 2, 2022 - 6:31 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

And what about Six degrees of separation ?

That was an interesting movie with very little music in it... IIRC, the entire score about 15 minutes long? I remember the tango theme Goldsmith composed, and thought the music was quite fitting, more chamber like.

I've seen the movie (long time ago), but, like I.Q., I don't have the score either.

 
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