Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 9:01 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Well lets see if this goes anywhere. wink

(1) You would think by the 23rd century the natural life span of a human would increase because of medical advancements. For example does Kirk age at the same rate as a man in the 21st century? If we go by the years between Space Seed and Wrath of Khan I would say there has been no advancements in the aging process or life span of humans.


(2) I watched "The Apple" over the weekend and was struck by something Kirk said to Scotty.

When Scotty couldn't brake the Enterprise from a decaying orbit Kirk said, "Track out of there with the main section". Was he referring to separating the saucer from the secondary hull? I don't ever remember this concept coming up in the original series. It was certainly not "illustrated" on screen until the Next Generation pilot.

 
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 9:16 AM   
 By:   Mike_J   (Member)




(2) I watched "The Apple" over the weekend and was struck by something Kirk said to Scotty.

When Scotty couldn't brake the Enterprise from a decaying orbit Kirk said, "Track out of there with the main section". Was he referring to separating the saucer from the secondary hull? I don't ever remember this concept coming up in the original series. It was certainly not "illustrated" on screen until the Next Generation pilot.


Its been a fair number of years since I last read the excellent book The Making of Star Trek but I'm pretty sure that the Enterprise's ability to separate the saucer section in an emergency was referenced there. That was published years before Next Gen.

 
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 9:36 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Wow, I have that paperback! Looks to be in about the same condition. I haven't read it since the 70's. I'll have to pull it out and reread it.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 9:42 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Guys I have read this book and recommend it. Solow and Justman have some really good material in this book, and it is not a fluff picture book, it is in depth. An excellent read for someone serious about Trek origins, the writing and production side.


http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Star-Trek-Real-Story/dp/0671896288/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383586852&sr=8-1&keywords=inside+star+trek%3A+the+real+story

 
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 9:55 AM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

Well lets see if this goes anywhere. wink

(1) You would think by the 23rd century the natural life span of a human would increase because of medical advancements. For example does Kirk age at the same rate as a man in the 21st century? If we go by the years between Space Seed and Wrath of Khan I would say there has been no advancements in the aging process or life span of humans.


(2) I watched "The Apple" over the weekend and was struck by something Kirk said to Scotty.

When Scotty couldn't brake the Enterprise from a decaying orbit Kirk said, "Track out of there with the main section". Was he referring to separating the saucer from the secondary hull? I don't ever remember this concept coming up in the original series. It was certainly not "illustrated" on screen until the Next Generation pilot.



I admire the attempt to spark some interesting speculative discussion on these topics, but I think in doing so, it helps to remember some basic limitations. "Star Trek" is a very ambitious and forward-thinking series, but it's only as accurate in its predictions about the future as its individual script-writers were. The show had an elaborate and detailed writers bible, and the producers submitted scripts to a scientific research firm in an attempt to make their predictions as accurate as possible, and to keep episodes consistent with each other, but to quote the great William Shatner, "It's just a TV show."

The format of the show purports to be about humans (and others) living in the 23rd Century, but realistically, it's about '60s man (some would argue '50s man) in stories that are set in an exotic future setting. The idea was to set it in a more-or-less unspecified future time, so that the writers were free to tackle issues and stories they might otherwise not be permitted to address in a more conventional dramatic television series.

It's not a documentary, right?

I remember the "saucer separation" capability as being part of the original design of the original series ship. It was never deemed useful for any reason in 79 episodes of the original series. When it was used in the "emergency" in the VERY FIRST Next Generation episode, I personally thought it was such an incredibly lame attempt to depict the events as being SO PERILOUS, that it only served to destroy credibility in a story that was already sorely lacking it.

(I was so disappointed when ST:TNG premiered that I admit I couldn't make it all the way through the first episode.)

I'd also submit that "The Apple" is one of the lamest episodes of the second season (basically a third-season episode produced early, like the first season's "The Alternative Factor," IMHO), and taking an offhand remark that Kirk makes during it gives its script more "canonical cred" than it deserves.

 
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 10:23 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

I hated the way they separated the saucer in TNG pilot. It really was silly. Especially seeing the secondary hull, odd shaped as it was flying around independently like a tiny star fighter. The concept was much better presented in Generations.

I do find it weird that Roddenberry presented a future with scientific advancements regarding mechanical things and social progress. (Though in actuality not really!) But he totally ignored physiology advancements.

The Apple was an embarrassment for sure though there was some good stuff going on between Kirk and Scotty. Also forgot to mention the other surprising line from Kirk, where he said a dead red shirts Father got him into the academy. I wonder if that was ever expounded on?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 10:46 AM   
 By:   Matt S.   (Member)

Well lets see if this goes anywhere. wink

(1) You would think by the 23rd century the natural life span of a human would increase because of medical advancements. For example does Kirk age at the same rate as a man in the 21st century? If we go by the years between Space Seed and Wrath of Khan I would say there has been no advancements in the aging process or life span of humans.


I know you probably want to limit this to what's strictly on-screen in TOS, but I would point out that in The Next Generation pilot, Dr. McCoy is seen walking the halls of the Enterprise-D, at the ripe old age of 137.

 
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 11:03 AM   
 By:   Penelope Pineapple   (Member)

I'll have to confirm when I get home, but I'm pretty certain that in the book Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise (for the refit) the drawings do show that the saucer can be separated. Unlike the 1701-D, however, it's a one-time emergency thing. I would imagine that if the refit Enterprise could do it so could the original?

 
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 11:18 AM   
 By:   Mike_J   (Member)

Well lets see if this goes anywhere. wink

(1) You would think by the 23rd century the natural life span of a human would increase because of medical advancements. For example does Kirk age at the same rate as a man in the 21st century? If we go by the years between Space Seed and Wrath of Khan I would say there has been no advancements in the aging process or life span of humans.


I know you probably want to limit this to what's strictly on-screen in TOS, but I would point out that in The Next Generation pilot, Dr. McCoy is seen walking the halls of the Enterprise-D, at the ripe old age of 137.


I was never a fan of Next Gen but in Encounter To Farpoint, is the crumbly old doctor actually identified as McCoy? I know it was De Forrest Kelly playing the role but I'm pretty sure he wasn't actually named in the episode.

 
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 11:25 AM   
 By:   welwynfilmstudios   (Member)

Well lets see if this goes anywhere. wink

(1) You would think by the 23rd century the natural life span of a human would increase because of medical advancements. For example does Kirk age at the same rate as a man in the 21st century? If we go by the years between Space Seed and Wrath of Khan I would say there has been no advancements in the aging process or life span of humans.


I know you probably want to limit this to what's strictly on-screen in TOS, but I would point out that in The Next Generation pilot, Dr. McCoy is seen walking the halls of the Enterprise-D, at the ripe old age of 137.


I was never a fan of Next Gen but in Encounter To Farpoint, is the crumbly old doctor actually identified as McCoy? I know it was De Forrest Kelly playing the role but I'm pretty sure he wasn't actually named in the episode.


Wasn't he referred to as an Admiral, or something like that?

 
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 11:59 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Well lets see if this goes anywhere. wink

(1) You would think by the 23rd century the natural life span of a human would increase because of medical advancements. For example does Kirk age at the same rate as a man in the 21st century? If we go by the years between Space Seed and Wrath of Khan I would say there has been no advancements in the aging process or life span of humans.


I know you probably want to limit this to what's strictly on-screen in TOS, but I would point out that in The Next Generation pilot, Dr. McCoy is seen walking the halls of the Enterprise-D, at the ripe old age of 137.


I was never a fan of Next Gen but in Encounter To Farpoint, is the crumbly old doctor actually identified as McCoy? I know it was De Forrest Kelly playing the role but I'm pretty sure he wasn't actually named in the episode.


Wasn't he referred to as an Admiral, or something like that?


Inquiry minds want to know. I never heard of this!

 
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 1:33 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)





Pretty good for 137, I guess.

 
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 2:13 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

That's all kinds of awesome! Love how he still wears the bell bottoms. So the life span of a 23rd century person was expanded by 50 or 60 years.

 
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 9:26 PM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

When Scotty couldn't brake the Enterprise from a decaying orbit Kirk said, "Track out of there with the main section". Was he referring to separating the saucer from the secondary hull? I don't ever remember this concept coming up in the original series..


I thought he said "Jettison the nacelles and crack out of there with the main section if you have to."

He was definitely referring to saucer separation. And it made sense in that situation. All Scotty had working was the impulse engines against Vaal's tractor beam. The impulse engines are on the saucer, so dumping the powerless drive section would lighten the mass of the ship with no loss of thrust, making it vastly easier to break away.

I agree that "The Apple" was a relatively crummy episode, and it has not aged well, making matters worse.

- Kirk and McCoy don't have the slightest thought of resuscitating the first redshirt when he gets hit with poison plant darts, or of beaming up to see what can be done for him in Sickbay.

- Kirk greets a native who's trying to hide by sneaking up and punching him in the mouth without warning.

- Chekov says to Martha, "If we had to stay here, would it be so wery bad?" Well, let's see: If we have to stay here, that means 421 of our shipmates are going to suffer a fiery death in the upper atmosphere. No biggie.

- After destroying the natives' whole economy, social order, and way of life (forced to or not), Kirk is incredibly cavalier and insouciant about it. "Yeah, you've just lost your eternal youth so you'll start aging now, and your community is too small to survive as a viable gene pool, and you have no idea how much hard labor is ahead of you as subsistance farmers, but you're going to like it soon." This was Star Trek's version of "We had to pass the plan so you could see what's in it."

 
 Posted:   Nov 5, 2013 - 6:14 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

He might have said crack out of there. My hearing isn't the best nowadays plus I was trying to remember the line as an afterthought. But it looks like I got the jest of it right. smile

Yeah if you want a prime example of Kirk going against the Prime Directive, (pun intended) this would be it! Though I guess he was arguing there was nothing natural about their way of life or culture since the residents were obviously manipulated by a higher being. Or it's mechanical counterpart. (Why were all less advanced alien races in Star Trek space hippies? )

A lot bothered me about the episode. It was fine for Kirk to let his guard down, but red shirts were dropping like flies. Even Spock was hit with poisonous spores. You think they would have beamed the heck out of there a lot sooner. (Though I don't remember exactly when they were prevented from doing so) Kirk owes Spock big time! He got hit with poison spores, a force field and a lightning bolt! Tough day for a science officer.

I noted before it bothered me that Kirk fired Scotty just when he was to face his death. Nice of Kirk to tell Scotty he's a failure right before he dies with 500 other crew mates! It's not like it was his fault. How many times had Scotty pulled a miracle in the past ? How about saying, "Scotty, there's nothing you could have done. If it was humanly possible to save the ship, your the person that could have done it. You've served with honor and valor."

As you mention the natives without knowledge or choice would be faced with many things they never had to deal with before. They have to hunt and grow food. Fight disease's, the women would have to deal with child birth, etc. The only moral way to resolve all of this would be to repair the damaged idol and give the inhabitants an option as too which way of life they choose to live once they are presented with both realities.

 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
© 2014 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved.