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 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 12:59 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

I've heard of composers like Williams and Herrmann' estate being very strict about what was being played in concert. But according to Steven Allen Fox Ennio Morricone's THE MISSION isn't allowed to be played by anyone but Ennio himself or his son. He wanted to play it at his choral film music concert in February but now has to drop it. AND THAT ALSO GOES FOR HIS WHOLE CATALOGUE!

Is this for real? Any way around it? Composers can be their own worst enemies.

 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 1:27 PM   
 By:   David Sones (Allardyce)   (Member)

It's certainly possible. Williams has a legal thing where his music cannot be re-recorded by anybody else and used; has to be excerpts from the original recordings only. I'm not sure if it applies to all Williams music, but it did in the case of some animated shows that used some of his tunes.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 1:34 PM   
 By:   JC   (Member)

Hi! I just registred at the board to resolve that misunderstanding.

"Mission" was performed by the Munich Symphonic Orchestra with conductor Ulf Schirmer during the concert "Cinema in Concert". I saw the concert on the Bavarian televison. There is also a video on youtube:

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 1:37 PM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

It's certainly possible. Williams has a legal thing where his music cannot be re-recorded by anybody else and used; has to be excerpts from the original recordings only. I'm not sure if it applies to all Williams music, but it did in the case of some animated shows that used some of his tunes.

If that is the case then I wonder how Ron Jones got around that for the Ruby Spears Superman cartoon.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 1:41 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

Hi! I just registred at the board to resolve that misunderstanding.

"Mission" was performed by the Munich Symphonic Orchestra with conductor Ulf Schirmer during the concert "Cinema in Concert". I saw the concert on the Bavarian televison. There is also a video on youtube:


How far back was this?

 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 1:42 PM   
 By:   Hermit   (Member)

There's clearly a way around this - "Nella Fantasia" is a vocal version of Gabriel's Oboe from The Mission and it's been performed and recorded dozens of times by such artists as Russell Watson, Sarah Brightman, Il Divo, Amici Forever, The Celtic Tenors, etc, etc, etc.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 1:49 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

There's clearly a way around this - "Nella Fantasia" is a vocal version of Gabriel's Oboe from The Mission and it's been performed and recorded dozens of times by such artists as Russell Watson, Sarah Brightman, Il Divo, Amici Forever, The Celtic Tenors, etc, etc, etc.

My guess is solo vocal versions and small orchestras (Spaghetti Western Orchestra) are exempt because they wouldn't be directly in competition with a Morricone concert. But Morricone may want to create a situation where his music done with large orchestra can only be heard at one of his concerts which would be unfair. Still I am curious about the above Munich concert. Any others?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 1:49 PM   
 By:   JC   (Member)

The concert in Munich was recoreded in June 2010

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 1:49 PM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

There's clearly a way around this - "Nella Fantasia" is a vocal version of Gabriel's Oboe from The Mission and it's been performed and recorded dozens of times by such artists as Russell Watson, Sarah Brightman, Il Divo, Amici Forever, The Celtic Tenors, etc, etc, etc.

You can say that again - it's Moon River for the current day!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 1:53 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

The concert in Munich was recoreded in June 2010

So either this is a whole new rule or there is a way around it! Thanks!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 1:53 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

It's certainly possible. Williams has a legal thing where his music cannot be re-recorded by anybody else and used; has to be excerpts from the original recordings only. I'm not sure if it applies to all Williams music, but it did in the case of some animated shows that used some of his tunes.

Say what? So how does that account for the GAZILLION of JW compilations out there with re-rerecorded material (ranging from major orchestras to your local school marching band).

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 1:57 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

Williams allows plenty of music but only the arrangements he okays. There is a whole lot, including cues from HOOK and SUGARLAND EXPRESS that are verboten.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 2:06 PM   
 By:   Smaug   (Member)

None of this is true anyway. Williams and Morricone, like all other Hollywood composers don't own their music and have no say as to whether it's performed or not. If the orchestral parts aren't saved from the recording sessions then there is a bit of control in that no one has the music. But this would mean Morricone traveling around the world with his own parts. It's possible.

But again any of the studios, who actually own the music, would gladly issue a performance or arrange my license to anyone interested in paying them for the privilege.

As for re-recordings. Copyright law permits artists to control first recordIngs. After that anyone can re-record with wha they call a compulsory license. So if you called up the studio who produced The Mission and said you wanted to arrange, play, and record the entire score of The Mission on kazoos and toy pianos, there's nothing Morricone could do legally to stop you.

Writing film scores is work for hire. Prop builders don't get to take the sets home with them because they don't own the sets. They were hired to do a job and turn it over. Same goes for film music.

 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 2:29 PM   
 By:   David Sones (Allardyce)   (Member)

It's certainly possible. Williams has a legal thing where his music cannot be re-recorded by anybody else and used; has to be excerpts from the original recordings only. I'm not sure if it applies to all Williams music, but it did in the case of some animated shows that used some of his tunes.

Say what? So how does that account for the GAZILLION of JW compilations out there with re-rerecorded material (ranging from major orchestras to your local school marching band).


All I know is what has been said on all of the Family Guy episode commentaries that spoofed Star Wars. It was mentioned each time that they were required to use Williams' original recordings instead of re-recording with a smaller orchestra. It wasn't even an option to do otherwise. Perhaps this only applies to Star Wars. I dunno. But I don't see why the producers of the show and the composer of the show would make that up.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 2:44 PM   
 By:   Illustrator   (Member)

AND THAT ALSO GOES FOR HIS WHOLE CATALOGUE!

If this is the case I wonder how the Spaghetti Western Orchestra (currently on tour by the way) have
got around it. Maybe the composer approved it?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 2:57 PM   
 By:   JamesSouthall   (Member)

The Mission is published by EMI Music. They could prevent performance (hard to see why they would) but Ennio Morricone could not. Of course, somebody would need to have the score in order to perform it.

For something like Star Wars, I guess the rights holder is slightly more restrictive.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 4:26 PM   
 By:   Smaug   (Member)

George Lucas and Lucasfilm administer the music and trademarks for Star Wars. You need to understand there is a difference between "publishing" the sheet music and administering the intellectual property.

If a TV commercial wanted to use the Kunzel recording of Star Wars and Lucasfilm denies them a license, that's one thing. A special relationship between Lucas and Williams. But in 99% of cases the composers have no say about what happens to their music after the movie. They have nothing to do with the decision to put out a record, or if sheet music will be published. Unless they care to spend their own money (which really none of them do). They are hired to spend their time and money producing a soundtrack for a film-not preparing a concert suite for orchestra which is a time consuming and expensive thing to have it all copied and prepared correctly.

Williams has spent a lot of his own money preparing the fairly expensive "John Williams Edition" materials which probably lost a lot of money. But at least he knows the music circulating out there is correct.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 6:18 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

I hope if this is true , when our great film composers leave this earth, such will not be still a binding legal thing.that will really be a pity.

 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 7:18 PM   
 By:   Scott M (Oldsmith)   (Member)

But this would mean Morricone traveling around the world with his own parts. It's possible.

:-D

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 7:54 PM   
 By:   fmenard   (Member)

That is why he creates "concert" versions. They are orchestrated the correct way to be played in concert. You can buy those pieces. When was the last time you heard a non-concert JW piece in a live performance ??

 
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