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 Posted:   Dec 27, 2008 - 7:37 AM   
 By:   musicwizard   (Member)

Any Michel Legrand fans here?
Have been listening a lot to this composer again lately since I finally found the "Le Cinema de Michel Legrand: Nouvelle Vague" album.
Although I love his music I consider him more of a tunesmith (and a great one!) than a filmcomposer. Seems most of his scores I own are monothematic or based on a themesong instead of real underscoring.
Exceptions are "The Three Musketeers", "Ice Station Zebra" and "La Bicyclette Bleue" although the love theme also dominates here.
My favorites would be:
- The Summer of '42 / Picasso Summer
- Les Demoiselles de Rochefort
- The Three Musketeers
- The Other Side of Midnight
- Paris was made for Lovers
- The Thomas Crown Affair
- Un Peu de Soleil dans l'Eau Froide
- La Bicyclette Bleue



 
 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2008 - 7:44 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I don't see why 'film composer' and 'tunesmith' need necessarily be mutually exclusive, but yeah, I'm a fan of Legrand. Especially after I got the 4CD longbox thing awhile back.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2008 - 8:20 AM   
 By:   Alex Klein   (Member)

I think he has some very interesting things to say musically. Not only that, but I always admire composers that have a lot to say outside of film. He's quite an accomplished musician and I wish he'd get more assignments.

Alex

 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2008 - 12:24 AM   
 By:   Philip Colston   (Member)

Michel Legrand composed my favourite film score, “The Go-Between”, 1970. It is a quasi-Baroque masterpiece, and it fits the (superb) film to absolute perfection. Legrand re-recorded the entire suite, for two pianos and orchestra, in 1979, playing one of the piano parts and directing the orchestra:

http://www.dustygroove.com/item.php?id=ks27p62m9z&ref=browse.php&refQ=cat%3D12%26amp%3Bincl_oos%3D1%26amp%3Bincl_cs%3D1%26amp%3Bkwfilter%3Dgo-between

A more recent recording (1996), in which Legrand plays harpsichord to Catherine Michel on the harp (with orchestra), differentiates the keyboard parts, so is both interesting and splendid:

http://www.amazon.com/Music-Cinema-Suite-for-Harp/dp/B000027OUO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1230444835&sr=1-2

But I think that the best version is the original soundtrack recording. I don’t hold out much hope that it will ever be released, so will likely extract the music from the DVD. Because of the structure of the film and score, there is little conflict between music and dialogue or sound effects. And although Michael Redgrave speaks a line over the title theme, it is justifiably the most famous first line in modern English literature (from L.P. Hartley’s novel of the same title):

“The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.”

It is possible to hear the fugal variation from “The Go-Between” on-line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4KWS4CYkA

This alone will disclose that Legrand is a master composer and not simply a “tunesmith”.

Note that many of Michel Legrand’s film themes, including this one, exist in various “pop” arrangements as well. Occasionally, there are surprises. When I purchased the “Larcange Plays Legrand” album in the late 1970s, I expected “The Go-Between” theme to be the pop version. But it is in fact very similar to the film version, with accordionist Maurice Larcange playing the rapid Baroque figuration in a remarkable display of virtuosity. And one of the pop versions of the theme is very different—and more elaborate—than usual:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RuMG-fePTo

One less well-known Legrand score that I should very much like to see released in some form is “Bequest to the Nation”/“The Nelson Affair”, 1973.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2008 - 3:26 AM   
 By:   musicwizard   (Member)

I think he has some very interesting things to say musically. Not only that, but I always admire composers that have a lot to say outside of film. He's quite an accomplished musician and I wish he'd get more assignments.

Alex


Yes, his gift for melody, harmony, counterpoint and orchestration is just incredible.
He definitely belongs to the A-list of jazzmasters like Duke Ellington. He made dozens of (non-filmmusic) albums as a pianist / arranger / conductor (and sometimes as a vocalist too!) with all big names as guest musicians. Not always great but they show how a great craftsmanship this man's got in every musical style you can imagine.
I can imagine in this time of synthdrones scores his music is not very in demand but would like to see some of his scores / albums get (re)released. The Universal compilation Cd's are just great.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2008 - 5:37 AM   
 By:   Graham S. Watt   (Member)

I'm another fan of Michel Legrand's film scores and non-filmwork, but I think the distinction between "film composer" and "tunesmith" is an interesting one, although Thor's right that they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

What I'm getting at is that, through interviews with the composers themselves, plus analyses from brainy critics, we kind of know how the music of Herrmann, Goldsmith and Williams (etc) "works" as film music, but I haven't seen many detailed studies of Legrand's film scores as "film scores", nor can I recall offhand any interviews with the man in which he explains how he approaches a film (as opposed to a jazz piece or a song). I must admit though that I shamefully do not have ICE STATION ZEBRA. Could the liner notes help in this little discussion we're having?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2008 - 6:55 AM   
 By:   Timmer   (Member)

Come on Graham, you really must get the FSM release of ICE STATION ZEBRA, it's brilliant!

And Philip, agree with you on The Go-Between. Such a fine score, I've always wondered why the hell it's never had a proper release?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2008 - 7:57 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Speaking of ICE STATION ZEBRA, there's a good example of a score that is VERY far from being "tune-driven". It has lots of dissonance and suspense cues with some quite interesting textures. See my post on film and score here:

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=905&forumID=1&archive=1

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2008 - 8:58 AM   
 By:   Graham S. Watt   (Member)

Well Timmer, if you put it like that I suppose I'd better get it.

Ah yes, Thor. I remember that thread. Seems like Legrand actually was a film composer after all! But, just to finish on a controversial question, does anyone feel that his dramatic sensibilities were never quite as acutely developed as those of that other old tunesmith Henry Mancini?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2008 - 9:41 AM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

I just felt, like Mancini, he was given few opportunities to stretch. The compilation Thor mentioned convinced me that was the case. I actually like his THE MAN WHO LOVED CAT DANCING somewhat better than John William's score.

 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2008 - 9:42 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Listen to 'Ice Station Zebra' and you'll see a composer who knows not just how to write tunes but to use every post-impressionistic harmonic and rhythmic surprise to thwart the predictable, but never just for variety's sake. I'm not surprised Thor likes that one, because his style there is frequently the sort of thing Williams uses, notably in the 'probe' music for TESB.

And in 'Three Musketeers' he pulls off period pastiche brilliantly but very effortlessly and unselfconsciously. 'The Go-Between' shows a composer who can do everything, but restrains himself.

His trick is tasteful restraint. He doesn't feel (unlike Herrmann or Rozsa) that he needs to display all his wares in every single movie, as though he were on display every time.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2008 - 11:31 AM   
 By:   musicwizard   (Member)


But, just to finish on a controversial question, does anyone feel that his dramatic sensibilities were never quite as acutely developed as those of that other old tunesmith Henry Mancini?


That's exactly what I mean Graham. The man CAN write music no question about that, but does his music for some particularly films enhance the drama? His rejected scores for "The Man who loved Cat Dancing" or "Robin and Marion" may be great music but does it really fit the movie? I've got the same thing with "Ice Station Zebra". Great on Cd but I think if Goldsmith had scored it, it would have been a better film. Perhaps it's the way he writes music for movies. All the music for "The Thomas Crown Affair" was already written before the film was finished. I guess this is the way he wrote / writes most of his scores, that is start writing before the editing has begon.
And indeed like Mancini most of the time he was only offered a comedy or a romantic drama to score. No doubt he is capable of doing much more but I can't imagine him scoring a Star Wars or First Blood. And let's not forget "Never say never again". Almost every note is just "wrong". Unfortunately I haven't seen movies like "Play Dirty", "Gulliver's Travels", "Les fabuleuses Aventures du legendaire Baron du Munchausen" or "Les Miserables". Enough material to make a great score like "The Three Musketeers" you would think. Anyone know these scores?



 
 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2008 - 12:05 PM   
 By:   king mark   (Member)

He scored the French animated film The Smurfs and the Magic Flute in 1976. I had this LP when I was 10 years old and thought it was great! That even pre-dates my knowledge of film music in general...hey,wait ...that was my first film score then!

Anyone remembers this? It had this wildly orchestrated "flute duel" track and the "Smurf song" (not the one in the American cartoon)

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2008 - 2:57 PM   
 By:   JADSTERSDAD   (Member)

I'm a great Legrand fan. The Three Musketeers is, in my view, one of the truly great scores and a soundtrack I love to listen to. So many other great works. But what's fascinating is how he can come up with a dud like Never Say Never (although the song knocks the dross of Another Way To Die into a cocked hat and the score is 20 times better than Serra's take).

I'll take this opportunity to ask - again - if anyone has any leads to Legrand's 'The Burning Shore' aka 'Mountain of Diamonds'. Wilbur Smith adaptations seem to do great things for composers. I'd love to listen to this one.

 
 Posted:   Dec 28, 2008 - 9:55 PM   
 By:   Philip Colston   (Member)

Timmer, the theme from “The Go-Between” was very popular on the radio at the time the film was released, in both the pop and original versions. Given this popularity, it is indeed strange that the only original release was a 45-RPM record with two tracks.

A release of the OST recording of “The Go-Between” is my foremost “holy grail”.

In my opinion, of all living film composers, Michel Legrand has—by far—the greatest mastery of music. For example, consider the initial descending motif of the theme of “The Go-Between”, which is in what I call the “quasi-Baroque” style. I think other composers would likely have structured and harmonised this motif on the popular Baroque progression of descending fifths in the bass (I – IV – VII – III – VI – II – V#3 – I, with or without added sevenths, which does appear elsewhere in the score). But Legrand chose a uniquely different approach:

Over a tonic pedal point (in minor mode): I – VI – IV(added sixth) – V#3 7 – I – IV(natural 3) – V#3 7 – I. This has a more constricting, foreboding effect.

I need not point out Legrand’s mastery of advanced counterpoint; the fugue I cited above is worthy of Bach, the greatest of all composers.

Legrand does score in the European style, which is distinctly different than the Hollywood Golden Age style, and this may not be to all tastes. I must agree with comments above on the matter of “Never Say Never Again”; however, John Barry had established a wonderful Bond sound that nothing different can properly replace. Legrand’s Bond score is still far better than the other non-Barry efforts in the series, with the exception of “The Spy Who Loved Me”. (I recall being delighted when Roger Moore landed the role of Bond, and then being aghast at the hideous pop score created for his debut, “Live and Let Die”.)

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 29, 2008 - 8:28 AM   
 By:   Graham S. Watt   (Member)

I think that Timmer, who thinks that Legrand's ICE STATION ZEBRA is brilliant, should now step in and tell us what his thoughts are on NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN, bearing in mind how much he loves John Barry's BOND scores...

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 29, 2008 - 8:48 AM   
 By:   Overtones   (Member)

I'm a great Legrand fan. The Three Musketeers is, in my view, one of the truly great scores and a soundtrack I love to listen to. So many other great works. But what's fascinating is how he can come up with a dud like Never Say Never (although the song knocks the dross of Another Way To Die into a cocked hat and the score is 20 times better than Serra's take).

I'll take this opportunity to ask - again - if anyone has any leads to Legrand's 'The Burning Shore' aka 'Mountain of Diamonds'. Wilbur Smith adaptations seem to do great things for composers. I'd love to listen to this one.


I agree. THE BURNING SHORE is a Legrand score I've been trying to track down for years.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 29, 2008 - 12:05 PM   
 By:   samanthasmom2001   (Member)

LeGrand with me is a either a hit or a big ass miss. We all know that certain Composers get pegged with a certain kind of film. Ice Station Zebra for example, I don't think of Michel LeGrand to compose that film. The flic was a ok affair, but as far as the theme, I sort of like LeGrand's take on it. BUT that film needed a Goldsmith.

I liked his score to Thomas Crown Affair and also The Go-Between. But as with Jarre, there is a certain, if not a large FLUFFYNESS to LeGrand. Never Ending or Beginning.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 29, 2008 - 12:46 PM   
 By:   Morlock1   (Member)

I've always liked Legrand, but this year, looking into 60's French cinema, I've become a really huge fan. I love his few scores for Godard, and THE UMBRELLAS OF CHERBOURG is magnificent, a phenominal score to great film.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2008 - 10:03 AM   
 By:   Graham S. Watt   (Member)

Yeah, I know what you mean, musicwizard. I can't imagine Legrand scoring STAR WARS either, but neither can I imagine STAR WARS with a Jerry Fielding score. In fact, I've always thought that versatilty was an overrated virtue. I've already said that I'm a fan of much of Legrand's work, but I don't think he's "the ideal film composer" (in inverted commas). Only for some films.

As far as "tunesmith film composers" (in inverted commas) go, perhaps the most successful would be Henry Mancini. Somewhere in the middle would be Michel Legrand, and at the bottom of the heap would be, say, Burt Bacharach. And yet I'm one of the few (?) who thinks that Bacharach's score for BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID is great.

So, all the above-mentioned are great in their own way, and thank God not everybody's right for STAR WARS.

 
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