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Every Star Trek movie score is sort of wasted. They're all pretty bad movies (except First Contact).
Nah.
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Just... no. The First Contact theme was written for a different movie with a different tone and is so out of place here. I agree a Goldsmith score would have been outstanding especially considering it is a Klingon heavy movie and Goldsmith originated the Klingon theme, but it would have been composed with a very different tone appropriate for the movie and requested by the director.
I hate when people borrow themes from another movie as a concept for another one. It’s basically temp tracking of the worst kind.
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I feel the opposite: I felt the score really elevated Generations, which had a plot which was both convoluted and paper thin. There’s so much loveliness and really great action scoring. It also was responsible for bringing bold music back to TV Star Trek.
The Undiscovered Country’s score works great in the film, as it should, but on album, it bogs down in darkness. The film itself also leans too hard on easy Shakespeare quotes and Nicky Meyer’s dogged insistence to make it all so nautical. Sadly, the original cast was still kind of played for lightness and the music doesn’t support the darkness. Chekov is made into a bigger moron than usual, Uhura and the books, and even the oh-so-meta moment Kirk had with “I can’t believe I kissed you.” “Must’ve been your lifelong ambition!” I still cringe at the forced humor in the last classic two films. Both movies would have been well served if they trusted the cast to carry the film without needing the jokes to appeal to the crossover audiences who never came. However, when Eidelman busted out his version of a Star Trek Theme, it was brilliant. His Sign Off and End Credits were as uplifting and sweeping as anything Goldsmith or Horner provided. His Klingon theme, which is the opening credits music, isn’t a march or anything memorable on its own, but it’s a great piece of music. It’s a shame Star Trek didn’t do for him what it did for Horner. I still like it better than Rosenmann’s creaky music. I still fantasize about a Star Trek 4 with Horner completing the loose trilogy of films. A score along the lines of Cocoon would have worked beautifully, selling the comedy without smashing it over our head with stuff like “Hospital Chase.” Yikes…
Goldsmith’s best work for the Trek movies were TMP (a masterwork) and TVH, which has such lovely action and epic God cues. I did wish he created a new theme for the film rather than leaning on his TMP tune, but it would have been hard to top. His TNG film scores were a little less great. The TMP tune is totally appropriate since most people thought the movies swiped it (before the series came out – laughingly). I still feel his Klingon Theme is wrong for Worf, but it’s still a genius theme.
Honestly, I love all of the Trek film scores, some more than others. TUC had a great score that was more than appropriate for it, but a dark Goldsmith theme might have been nice. However, I would have loved Horner to return. It was announced he would in Starlog but when it changed, I was crushed.
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I feel the opposite: I felt the score really elevated Generations, which had a plot which was both convoluted and paper thin. There’s so much loveliness and really great action scoring. It also was responsible for bringing bold music back to TV Star Trek.
I agree with you overall. I do think Generations is one of the lesser Trek film scores (because of how great most of them are) but I also think it's pretty underrated, with its strengths not being appreciated. And it was bolder scoring than McCarthy was able to do for the TV series at that time, certainly. It definitely aids the film and fits it well. You're right that Generations plot is both convoluted and paper thin, but it's actually my favorite TNG film by default because I think all of the other ones are just terrible (including First Contact for the most part) with the characters almost unrecognizable, including Picard.
The Undiscovered Country’s score works great in the film, as it should, but on album, it bogs down in darkness.
Actually only a few of the most understated cues need to be edited out of the complete score program to eliminate that "bogged down" impression, I think. Most of it is just as great on album.
The film itself also leans too hard on easy Shakespeare quotes and Nicky Meyer’s dogged insistence to make it all so nautical. Sadly, the original cast was still kind of played for lightness and the music doesn’t support the darkness. Chekov is made into a bigger moron than usual, Uhura and the books, and even the oh-so-meta moment Kirk had with “I can’t believe I kissed you.” “Must’ve been your lifelong ambition!” I still cringe at the forced humor in the last classic two films. Both movies would have been well served if they trusted the cast to carry the film without needing the jokes to appeal to the crossover audiences who never came.
I like Nick Meyer's nautical stuff and can stand most of the humor in VI better than in V, but I agree with you wholeheartedly on that last point. The frustrating thing is that, particularly for Kirk/Spock/McCoy, the last two films have some of the best acting and character moments between them, and the films *would* have totally been carried without the dumb jokes. I blame the big success of the lighter-toned (but better written) STIV for the humor being forced into its two follow-ups.
However, when Eidelman busted out his version of a Star Trek Theme, it was brilliant. His Sign Off and End Credits were as uplifting and sweeping as anything Goldsmith or Horner provided. His Klingon theme, which is the opening credits music, isn’t a march or anything memorable on its own, but it’s a great piece of music. It’s a shame Star Trek didn’t do for him what it did for Horner. I still like it better than Rosenmann’s creaky music. I still fantasize about a Star Trek 4 with Horner completing the loose trilogy of films. A score along the lines of Cocoon would have worked beautifully, selling the comedy without smashing it over our head with stuff like “Hospital Chase.” Yikes…
Completely agree with all of this, and I used to HATE Rosenman's score until the Intrada expansion warmed me up to it a *little* bit.
Goldsmith’s best work for the Trek movies were TMP (a masterwork) and TVH, which has such lovely action and epic God cues. I did wish he created a new theme for the film rather than leaning on his TMP tune, but it would have been hard to top.
I mean, he kinda did...he just played the TMP theme briefly at the beginning of the main title, but most of it was The Mountain, a new theme along similar majestic lines of the new one he wrote for First Contact. Sadly both of those two new main title themes were very sparsely used in the rest of the score proper. I really wish there were standalone concert versions of Goldsmith's post-TMP Trek main title themes: The Mountain from TFF (I'm guessing your "TVH" was a typo), First Contact, and Ba'ku Village from Insurrection (actually I'd love concert versions of the other two softer romantic themes in this score too). Nemesis didn't have a sweeping main title theme -- for the main title, at least -- but that unique end credits arrangement of Shinzon's theme seems to be in the same mold and I would desperately like a standalone version of that as well.
His TNG film scores were a little less great. The TMP tune is totally appropriate since most people thought the movies swiped it (before the series came out – laughingly). I still feel his Klingon Theme is wrong for Worf, but it’s still a genius theme.
Yeah I used to love these scores unabashedly, but they are certainly a bit more hit/miss than TMP or TFF (Insurrection is the most consistent of the three). Over time I've gotta a little annoyed at the cartoonish appropriation of the Klingon theme for Worf, but I also found its treatment cartoonish at times in TFF.
Honestly, I love all of the Trek film scores, some more than others. TUC had a great score that was more than appropriate for it, but a dark Goldsmith theme might have been nice. However, I would have loved Horner to return. It was announced he would in Starlog but when it changed, I was crushed.
Given the choice between Horner scoring STVI instead of Eidelman, or scoring STIV instead of Rosenman, the latter wins hands down. It's the only Trek score that actively bothers me at times.
Yavar
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I felt the score really elevated Generations, which had a plot which was both convoluted and paper thin [...]
Well, that describes nearly all the original ten films.
TWoK
Paper Thin Plot: Simple revenge flick.
Convoluted: Unnecessary Genesis device storyline.
TSfS
Paper Thin Plot: Go save our friend.
Convoluted: The Genesis device, catra ritual, Klingon opponent side story, etc.
TVH
Paper Thin Plot: Save the whales.
Convoluted: Alien space probe wants to make contact with whales. Scratch that, one species of whale (fuck all the other whales and aquatic life, as well as their food sources).
TFF
Paper Thin Plot: The search for God
Convoluted: Half brother Vulcan who has apparent powers, steals the Enterprise, goes to the center of the galaxy (conveniently within distances that not even a superior-speed vessel like the U.S.S. Voyager could reach), to find God. Almost fought giant rock creatures.
TUC
Paper Thin Plot: Scapegoating the Enterprise crew in an attempt to spoil Klingon/Federation relations. Deeper subtext to the issues being addressed could have made this a real thinker film, but alas...
Convoluted: take your pick. Eef convoluted shoe feets, vhere eet!
First Contact
Paper Thin Plot: Borg attack.
Convoluted: time travel (Which makes no sense; worse than any other time travel episode I can think of), first warp drive, Data becoming the Borg Queen's love toy, etc. Godawful film.
Insurrection
Paper Thin Plot: Large organization oversteps it's proper bounds, people in the organization fight back.
Convoluted: Magical anti-aging ________, and the ability to slow down time. New alien race (pointless, convoluted, when added to the other convoluted stuff).
Nemesis
Paper Thin Plot: Old look alike plot.
Convoluted: Name it.
Worst.
Trek.
Film.
Ever.
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Re: Nemesis, I think you meant to say WORST Trek film ever, an assessment in which I wholeheartedly agree with you. Very much offensively bad (only Into Darkness offends me as much, and it at least is somewhat more competently made).
And First Contact may be better shot and look more filmic with its fancy action sequences, but Generations despite all its many (and sometimes quite significant) flaws is the only TNG film I can enjoy at all, really. It suffers because of the treatment of Kirk (what happened to "I've always known, I'll die alone." -- that was one of the GOOD parts of TFF!), absence of Spock/McCoy, and glaringly stupid Nexus plot hole (why not go back to literally any other time?)
But most of all perhaps Generations suffers because it followed up All Good Things...
RE: the original six Trek films...they are all flawed in their own way and yet also all have their own good strengths which cause me to love them in spite of their flaws. There is literally something about each of the six that it does better than any of the others.
Yavar
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Despite the plotholes and problems Gnerations has, it's still the best TNG made:
It looks like TNG. Yes, you can change things up and it will still work, like in the TOS films, but that never happened in the TNG films.
It feels like a TNG film.
The characters are in character. No action Picard, love-toy Data (or inflatable Data, which contradicts an episode), no lousy use of other characters (like Beverly and Worf; in here, they're used like they were in the series).
There's character development.
It's the only TNG film with deeper levels to it: life, death, the family line continuing, evolving into a better person, and change.
And, on a side note, it's the only Star Trek film to use a series composer.
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The characters are in character.
I would say rather: the characters are (much) more in character. I still think Picard crying about the death of his nephew and brother is rather exaggerated and overdone, compared to how he would have behaved in the series. But at least it's still thoughtful and more in keeping in general tone with the series, compared with "THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HEEAH!" which completely didn't jive with anything of Picard in the series, even as regards his Borg issues.
It's the only TNG film with deeper levels to it: life, death, the family line continuing, evolving into a better person, and change.
It's kinda clumsily done (why a random person instead of Beverly Crusher in his Christmas family fantasy? Or why not some reference to The Inner Light?), but I agree that it tries and sometimes succeeds in tackling deeper levels than any of the other TNG films, which make a bit of a show of it but really fall on their faces and look stupid (UGH, especially Nemesis...WTF was it going for??)
It's rather telling to me that in the entertaining Red Letter Media reviews of each of the TNG films, their problems with Generations tend much more to be nitpicks ("look at how Picard just casually tosses aside the archeology prop that was so important to him on the series!") than actual serious problems for the most part. When they break down the other three TNG films they are much more savage and on point (much more like their Star Wars prequel reviews) and not grasping for silly little gaffes to make fun of.
And, on a side note, it's the only Star Trek film to use a series composer.
Yeah, and it did *sound* most like the series, even though I love the Goldsmith scores and would never advocate for McCarthy getting those assignments instead of him.
Yavar
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The characters are in character.
I would say rather: the characters are (much) more in character. I still think Picard crying about the death of his nephew and brother is rather exaggerated and overdone, compared to how he would have behaved in the series. But at least it's still thoughtful and more in keeping in general tone with the series, compared with "THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HEEAH!" which completely didn't jive with anything of Picard in the series, even as regards his Borg issues.
Picard evolved in the series. Remember how he started: Somebody who say it is a job who was quick to anger (telling Wesley to shut up, bellowing out to cut off the red alert alarm, etc.) and seemed to really not like children. And given his love of archeology, it only makes sense that as he evolved, he saw the importance of family and the family line and it affected him when he lost all of them.
It's the only TNG film with deeper levels to it: life, death, the family line continuing, evolving into a better person, and change.
It's kinda clumsily done (why a random person instead of Beverly Crusher in his Christmas family fantasy? Or why not some reference to The Inner Light?)
Beverly being his love interest was really only something fans thought was going to be. Heck, the only time they got together was an alternate timeline.
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Yeah, but it's weirdly some random new lady who looks vaguely like Beverly Crusher. It's really strange.
Clearly a Crusher/Picard relationship was intended early on in the series even if it never really bore fruit. But then romantic relationships in TNG were almost always really awkward. It's pretty telling that the Klingon "romance" was one of the better ones! (And it was frustratingly cut short.)
Yavar
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Yeah, but it's weirdly some random new lady who looks vaguely like Beverly Crusher. It's really strange.
It's made worse because the actress played a one shot character in a series episode. And since TNG was really good with character/actor continuity for the most part, this kinda stuck out a little. Nella Daren would have been a perfect choice.
Even worse. Kirk pining over Antonia. Who??!!!! Carol, Edith, Miramanee (and I totally get not name dropping her)....we hardly knew ye.
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