 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
Mar 12, 2015 - 1:42 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
Morricone
(Member)
|
I like speculation threads only when they excite my imagination and do not head along the lines of cliché. For instance most proposals of Elmer Bernstein or Ennio Morricone doing some western they didn't get doesn't do much for me, particularly because they both stopped doing westerns saying they have said all they wanted on that subject matter. But here I have 4 major composers on 4 films that might have logically gone to them but due to circumstances didn't. They all are very unique and would have shown a side of them we had never seen before. This is not to diss the scores written for them, they are more than capable and all had been at least been nominated for Oscars. But all of these proposed composers were in their prime and would even top them based on the scores they did around the same time.
THE COLOR PURPLE It is logical that the producer of this film would keep the scoring assignment for himself but as big a fan of Quincy Jones as I am (somebody release THE LOST MAN!) this is one of two times in his career that he froze in his tracks. The first was ROOTS where he agonized so much over every moment of this very important project he only got through the first few episodes when the producer brought in Gerald Fried to do the rest. With COLOR PURPLE he had so many projects going he kept farming out moments until he ended up with 12 composer credits (as far as I'm concerned Georges Delerue should be added to it). Williams, coming off of ET, would have added the emotional punch in a sharper yet subtler way AND he would have explored the black experience way different than ROSEWOOD or CONRACK with a decided feminist bent. Celie's story also involves flights of fantasy that John's touch might have made sublime. And, of course, the Spielberg connection would have been uninterrupted.
BECKET When director Peter Glenville did his first movie for Hal Wallis Tennessee William's SUMMER AND SMOKE Elmer Bernstein provided a score absolutely smothering with suppressed sexuality. The sound was so powerful he used it as another tool in his arsenal in many scores later including TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD. When their next project was announced Elmer may have not been available but what an opportunity it would have been. Elmer had represented the religious experience before in an epic way (THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, THE MIRACLE) but not Norman Dynasty with a masterly drama written by Jean Anouilh. Glenville was a very open director, going as far as reverse casting, late in the game, of Peter O'Toole as Henry II and Richard Burton as Becket, when they were originally signed up to play more along typecasting the opposite roles. Typecast Elmer with a jazz score or a comedy and you could predict the outcome. But give him offbeat projects like a couple later British films WHERE'S CHARLEY? and ZULU DAWN and he would sizzle. How he would approach this particular mix of epic and drama boggles my mind.
NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA Jerry Goldsmith made it no secret his favorite collaborator was Franklin Schaffner and this was the only break in that pairing between PLANET OF THE APES and BOYS FROM BRAZIL. I once had a talk with Jerry where he explained how he was pressured to do some Wagnerian riff on FIRST KNIGHT and he insisted that Vaughn-Williams was the more logical choice. He got his way and it shows how unique it made that score. What he might have done with a Russian epic has been one of my fantasies and THIS would have been the opportunity of a lifetime. Jerry's penchant for research on specific pieces like THE SAND PEBBLES, PAPILLON, CABOBLANCO, THE BLUE MAX and THE GHOST AND THE DARKNESS would have paid off here in spades. And the tricky emotional underlay with these two unsympathetic royals he might have gone the distance to capture, even moreso than the wonderful Richard Rodney Bennett (who seems to keep a bit of distance here).
THE LAST EMPEROR Ennio Morricone had been a collaborator with Bernardo Bertolucci for many years, including his ultimate epic 1900, for many years when this came along so why he was bypassed is a puzzle. Particularly because Ennio had just come off THE MISSION and if there was proof he could handle an intimate epic score it was that one. Perhaps producer Jeremy Thomas had his own ideas. Bertolucci had waited a long time to get permission to shoot in China's Forbidden City and he made the most of it. It is also about an unsympathetic royal but instead of being executed this one grows and evolves into a wise old age. Ennio has played around Chinese culture before in MARCO POLO and other films but this would have been a standout project. He probably could have also integrated traditional Chinese music into the piece and not lose himself. It always amazed me as much as Verdi is an integral part of 1900 it is Ennio's music that stays with me most. As is, the score is very effective but accomplishes this with contributions by 3 composers, David Byrne, Ryûichi Sakamoto and Cong Su. I have always felt the single composer can speak more deeply than collaborations. I have dreamed of how Ennio might have unified this epic even more than it's already wonderful state.
So are there other missed Golden opportunities out there? Not just assignments not gotten but scores where the more you think through what might have happened the more the mind boggles.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So are there other missed Golden opportunities out there? Not just assignments not gotten but scores where the more you think through what might have happened the more the mind boggles.
A similar speculation thread which demonstrates how close both Jerry Fielding and Piero Piccioni had gotten to scoring a Luis Bunuel film:
http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=101755&forumID=1&archive=0
[most FSMers likely don't watch films such as BECKET or NICHOLAS & ALEXANDRA, let alone the cinema of Luis Bunuel. In a thread on cinematographer Douglas Slocombe on the other side, most people resonded by only chatting about Indiana Jones movies  ]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
Mar 13, 2015 - 5:06 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
bobbengan
(Member)
|
Let me preface this by saying that, no, he's not a major composer, but he could very well have been.
Imagine for a minute if Richard Band scored THE TERMINATOR. The film is a box-office smash and Band's accompanying music impresses the meticulous James Cameron enough that they reteam for ALIENS. The music gets the attention of Hollywood. 'Who is this guy?', they curiously proclaim. Pretty soon, Band's phone is ringing off the hook to work with other up-and-coming filmmakers. This leads to an Academy Award nomination. Even to this day, his music is admired by fans who grew up in that era.
Yup. This story sure does depress me. If only. At his best, Band could do magnificent things with an orchestra and had an extremely distinct voice. At his worst... Well, his career spiraled into the oblivion of bad direct-to-video MIDI Full Moon film scores. About as bottom-of-the-barrel as a composer's career can go, really.
|
|
|
|
|
|
According to IMDB Wojciech Kilar was the original choice to compose the score for Brian De Palma's Femme Fatale, and I always thought he would totally kick ass in that great opening sequence with the Bolero pastiche.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
Mar 14, 2015 - 12:43 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
Morricone
(Member)
|
... and what about collaborations which were not missed opportunities. Giorgio Gaslini had the very uncommon opportunity to provide music for a film directed by Miklós Jancsó [and its soundtrack album - "La Pacifista" - receives very little response (if any at all) from FSM members].
Jancsó, like Buñuel, relied very little upon commentative music underscores, so a soundtrack album from a Jancsó film is rare bird indeed. Thing is, FSMers are unfamiliar with Jancsó. They want Spielberg, Cameron & Tim Burton.
...or Rolf A. Wilhelm, a predominantly TV composer getting Ingmar Bergman's THE SERPENT'S EGG or Gino Peguri (who only has a coupe CDs to his name) being put in charge of Tarkovsky's NOSTALGHIA. But this seems like another thread.
As a film connoisseur and Criterion Collection supporter, I fantasize more about what if Alex North wrote for a film directed by Henri-Georges Clouzot or if Jerry Goldsmith scored an Akira Kurosawa movie. What Golden Age Hollywood composer would you have liked to provide music for Ingmar Bergman's "The Seventh Seal"? 
Actually I have seldom gone that route, maybe because they seemed highly unlikely. But more I think because of the marked difference between American and European or, that matter, foreign composers is a chasm that is underestimated. This is exemplified by Elmer Bernstein opportunity to work on one of only 3 films that French filmmaker Serge Bourguignon made and the only one made in America. This was directly after Serge's acclaimed SUNDAYS AND CYBELE came out and won an Oscar and other awards. THE REWARD is a western of sorts with an enigmatic story, a major chunk spoken in Spanish and the debut of Max Von Sydow, so for all intents and purposes it is still a European film. The process Elmer went through on this film I wrote about here:
http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=100917&forumID=1&archive=0
As you can guess the number of responses I got from this, as opposed to the rest of this Elmer Bernstein series, was zero. So to sum it up Serge Bourguignon honed down what Elmer gave him to simple musical statements and sometimes simply chords. In other words a "modern" score. Elmer could do it but it was a rather frustrating process for him. So this story tells me that the strength and weaknesses of Hollywood film composers are formed by their particular career arcs and only a handful, like Elmer, could cross the lines into a more spare open European style. I somehow imagine a lot of stories similar to Alex North's on 2001 might have resulted when the cultural leap is wide enough.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
As a film connoisseur and Criterion Collection supporter, I fantasize more about what if Alex North wrote for a film directed by Henri-Georges Clouzot or if Jerry Goldsmith scored an Akira Kurosawa movie. What Golden Age Hollywood composer would you have liked to provide music for Ingmar Bergman's "The Seventh Seal"?
Interesting when one considers that North did score a Clouzot remake - The Thirteenth Letter was a remake of Clouzot's Le Corbeau - but I doubt that North would have had much to contribute considering how sparsely scored Clouzot's films were with the possible exception of The Mystery of Picasso (with superb music by Georges Auric).
|
|
|
|
|
|
As you can guess the number of responses I got from this, as opposed to the rest of this Elmer Bernstein series, was zero. So to sum it up Serge Bourguignon honed down what Elmer gave him to simple musical statements and sometimes simply chords. In other words a "modern" score. Elmer could do it but it was a rather frustrating process for him. So this story tells me that the strength and weaknesses of Hollywood film composers are formed by their particular career arcs and only a handful, like Elmer, could cross the lines into a more spare open European style. I somehow imagine a lot of stories similar to Alex North's on 2001 might have resulted when the cultural leap is wide enough.
Do you mean like James Horner (Le Nom de le rose), Bernard Herrmann (La Mariée était en noir), Lalo Schifrin (Les Félins)... etc?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
A very recent missed opportunity was the Game of Thrones series. That deserved a Bruce Broughton caliber score, and it's fair to think that he could accept if asked, being very active in television.
I think Ramin Dwajadi's music is decent and his main theme is nice and catchy, but Broughton could conjure something Tombstone-epic for the series.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Interesting when one considers that North did score a Clouzot remake - The Thirteenth Letter was a remake of Clouzot's Le Corbeau - but I doubt that North would have had much to contribute considering how sparsely scored Clouzot's films were with the possible exception of The Mystery of Picasso (with superb music by Georges Auric).
Yes - that's where my idea came from whilst listening to THE 13th LETTER. What if North actually wrote music for the original French film?
North wrote sparse scores, too. The 14 minutes of THE OUTRAGE is an example (which was a reimagined remake of Kurosawa's RASHOMON  ). What would North have written for the 1951 original by AK?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
Mar 16, 2015 - 1:37 AM
|
|
|
|
By: |
ian64
(Member)
|
or if Jerry Goldsmith scored an Akira Kurosawa movie
Well, in a strange, roundabout way, he did. I read an entertaining book written by the director Richard Fleischer who directed Tora, Tora, Tora, which had not just Fleischer directing but had directorial input from one or two others, such was the scale of the film. And one of them was Kurosawa. Kurosawa's meticulous way of working didn't fit in with a Hollywood epic that was chewing up large amounts of budget, and so, after filming a few scenes, his services were no longer required. Fleischer confirmed that at least one scene of Kurosawa's remains in the movie, which he called 'the worst scene in the entire picture'. So Goldsmith, if he didn't get to score a Kurosawa film, at least scored one with Kurosawa footage in it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
Mar 16, 2015 - 9:56 AM
|
|
|
|
By: |
bobbengan
(Member)
|
Along with "The Terminator," Richard Band - as I've written somewhere else on this board - had one more really big shot: scoring "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids" when Stuart Gordon was still directing it. When Gordon suddenly fell ill he had to drop out, then (of course) Joe Johnston replaced him and brought James Horner on board. The mind reels at the possibilities of Band scoring for James Cameron and/or a Disney film.
There was an interview with Band (albeit one I'm unable to locate at the moment) where he talks about being told by someone that a major Hollywood movie in the 80s or 90s (or was it several movies?) had used his music as a temp track in the editing/test screening process but that he was never contacted about scoring the film himself. I have no idea what movie or movies this refers to, however, but it shows that for a while he was close to making the transition from low budget genre movies to bigger films.
Here's an interesting one: John Williams was on board to score the 1977 horror movie "The Sentinel," but he reportedly backed out once he actually watched the movie. Gil Melle (actually a very inspired choice, having done terrific work on "Night Gallery") eventually scored it and did a good job.
Then of course, there's Nicholas Meyer's first choice for "Star Trek: Wrath of Khan": Miklos Rozsa. I can't remember now if Rozsa declined the offer or if it was the studio that said no to that one..
Dylan, I love how you're among the few who likes to pipe in with all-things Mr. Band!
I'd be interested to see if you're ever able to locate that interview - It is indeed a crying shame that Band's association with his family's cheap and bottom-of-the-barrel filmmaking mecca ended up impeding his own success, in a way, as the quality if his music directly suffered with each subsequent no-budget craptastic nonsense movie they produced.
If you listen to the cue "Meltdown" from his score to THE CALLER, I think you might get a pretty decent picture of what a Terminator score might have sounded like from him.
I forgot about Rozsa being Meyer's first choice for Wrath of Khan. Whoa. Rozsa never scored "space stuff" at all, correct? Would have loved to hear what his approach might have been like...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
Mar 16, 2015 - 4:17 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
DS
(Member)
|
I have a lot of love and respect for Richard Band & I've been waiting for a return to excellence for him since the late '90s (though in the meantime I've heard a lot of his greatest work for the first time through Intrada releases). At this point I can't say I'm expecting him to break through again with magnificent work - in this current landscape of poorly orchestrated and questionably directed American film music it's hard for any of the 70s/80s/90s composers to put their immense talents to gratifying use, if they're even hired at all - but I'll always go up to bat for him.
No, I don't believe Rozsa had ever been involved in any kind of outer space movie (though "Moonfleet" sounds like one, it isn't) but he had just come off of "Time After Time," a science fiction adventure, so that score might be a hint of what his approach would've been with "Star Trek." Or not. It's hard to imagine.
Another one to add to the topic are all of the James Bond scores John Barry didn't do. According to this article, Barry was always the first choice for every Bond film through Tomorrow Never Dies:
http://www.johnbarry.org.uk/filmnotgraphy.php
Other Barry scores we may have gotten but didn't for one reason or another, again according to the above article: "What's New Pussycat," "Anne of the Thousand Days," "Love Story" (though he scored a 70s college campus love story years later with his largely rejected "First Love"), "Don't Look Now," "The Man Who Fell to Earth," "Clash of the Titans," "The Right Stuff," "The Russia House," and several others.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
