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 Posted:   Mar 2, 2015 - 8:20 PM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

Well, it's not just "cannon to say" it, it's pretty much specified in the dialog.

"We just spent 18 months redesigning and refitting the Enterprise."

"This is an almost totally new Enterprise."

I'm not saying that makes any logical sense since it clearly would have been simpler to make a brand new ship. But they had to justify the upgrade for the big screen and still have fans of the original feel like the old girl was in the movie.



Despite the writers' obvious intention, there's still enough wiggle room in that dialog to get away from it. They just spent 18 months refitting a ship named Enterprise that was not the TV ship. The TV ship was long gone when TMP begins.

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2015 - 5:15 AM   
 By:   Scott McOldsmith   (Member)

That's why I think that certain things "always looked like this." Like Roddenberry's attitude about the appearance of the Klingons. Only they kept having images of the original Enterprise scattered about (in the Rec Deck of TMP, on the deck plans on TSFS, etc.).

Funny, as a kid, my brain just accepted it and simply considered one "the TV Enterprise" and the other "the movie Enterprise."

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2015 - 8:28 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Well, it's not just "cannon to say" it, it's pretty much specified in the dialog.

"We just spent 18 months redesigning and refitting the Enterprise."

"This is an almost totally new Enterprise."

I'm not saying that makes any logical sense since it clearly would have been simpler to make a brand new ship. But they had to justify the upgrade for the big screen and still have fans of the original feel like the old girl was in the movie.



Despite the writers' obvious intention, there's still enough wiggle room in that dialog to get away from it. They just spent 18 months refitting a ship named Enterprise that was not the TV ship. The TV ship was long gone when TMP begins.


Finally a theory I can get behind!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2015 - 9:52 AM   
 By:   Joe E.   (Member)

As you wish. Personally, I have no issue with saying the TV and movie versions are indeed the same ship, albeit with a pretty drastic refit.

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2015 - 10:01 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Despite the writers' obvious intention, there's still enough wiggle room in that dialog to get away from it. They just spent 18 months refitting a ship named Enterprise that was not the TV ship. The TV ship was long gone when TMP begins.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2015 - 10:09 AM   
 By:   Zooba   (Member)

Some CGI wizard should do a film of the Old TV Enterprise transforming into the one in TMP. Actually showing the refit and building of the new ship. That would be cool to see in Dry dock. With Goldsmith's music of course, or perhaps Horner could write a brand new cue for it.


Nerds (said in a loving way) , go for it!!!

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2015 - 10:19 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Some CGI wizard should do a film of the Old TV Enterprise transforming into the one in TMP. Actually showing the refit and building of the new ship. That would be cool to see in Dry dock. With Goldsmith's music of course, or perhaps Horner could write a brand new cue for it.


Nerds (said in a loving way) , go for it!!!


Someone actually did an animated gif years ago. Very simple but it demonstrated how it was possibly done. Don't have a clue where I saw it though.

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2015 - 10:35 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

There's written material out there (Paramount-authorized) that explained that the Enterprise-A was a brand new ship that was renamed just for Kirk. Depending on the source, it was previously named either Ti-Ho or Yorktown.

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2015 - 10:52 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

There's written material out there (Paramount-authorized) that explained that the Enterprise-A was a brand new ship that was renamed just for Kirk. Depending on the source, it was previously named either Ti-Ho or Yorktown.

I think in "Mr Scott's Guide To The Enterprise", the Enterprise-A was the refit Constitution Class Yorktown, renamed and given to Kirk.

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2015 - 11:04 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

I think in "Mr Scott's Guide To The Enterprise", the Enterprise-A was the refit Constitution Class Yorktown, renamed and given to Kirk.


I think that was the source I was thinking of as well, but I wasn't sure.
I can't recall at the moment what the source was for the Ti-Ho info.
It's around here somewhere!

Edit: Just found it, because it is the kind of thing that would bug me all day. big grin
I had it backwards. LOL
Scott's Guide had the blurb about Ti-Ho's re-christening, and the Yorktown version was in the Star Trek TNG Technical manual.

I guess whichever version one prefers to view as canon would depend on which of those books was published first. Nice to have a choice, I guess.

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2015 - 11:13 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

I think in "Mr Scott's Guide To The Enterprise", the Enterprise-A was the refit Constitution Class Yorktown, renamed and given to Kirk.


I think that was the source I was thinking of as well, but I wasn't sure.
I can't recall at the moment what the source was for the Ti-Ho info.
It's around here somewhere!

Edit: Just found it, because it is the kind of thing that would bug me all day. big grin
I had it backwards. LOL
Scott's Guide had the blurb about Ti-Ho's re-christening, and the Yorktown version was in the Star Trek TNG Technical manual.

I guess whichever version one prefers to view as canon would depend on which of those books was published first. Nice to have a choice, I guess.


Cool, thanks for clarifying that. Never heard of the Ti-Ho version.

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2015 - 1:36 PM   
 By:   jackfu   (Member)

Wet-blanket perspective, but while very rarely if ever discussed in films such as this franchise and others, for obvious reasons is how economics factor in. The spaceships in these films are usually disposable.
Capital ships would have a significant dollar value and likely would be repaired, refitted, etc., until they were obsolete by virtue of the cost of such eventually approaching the cost of building new ships. I’ve never noticed if any of these films go into any detail as to specifics of changes in interstellar drives, weaponry, etc. that would also necessitate refitting so as to attain higher speeds and so on, but I would assume such upgrades are part of it.
As an aside, I always liked the hearing in Aliens and the discussion therein and its portrayal of such meetings in which losses of company assets and how they will be budgeted, written off, etc., are discussed. Weaver’s acting was, I thought, dead-on as far as her realization of “where this is going” - being blamed for the loss of $42 billion (adjusted) in company assets.
I would imagine that a Starfleet Captain would likely face similar scrutiny if he/she had a record of wrecking starships.

Anyway it would have been cool to see the refitting in process.

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2015 - 1:45 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

There's written material out there (Paramount-authorized) that explained that the Enterprise-A was a brand new ship that was renamed just for Kirk. Depending on the source, it was previously named either Ti-Ho or Yorktown.

From Memory Alpha (the Star Trek Wikipedia site), emphasis mine -

While the ship's history before its recommissioning as Enterprise has never been officially stated, several non-canon sources (such as the AMT/Ertl Model kit documentation) have claimed it to formerly be the USS Yorktown (NCC-1717); others cite it as the newly-built (but not yet commissioned) USS Ti-Ho (NCC-1798), or the also newly-built USS Atlantis. Captain Scott alludes to the ship being newly built in the ship's log of Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, stating "This new ship must have been built by monkeys".

(And it seems Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise was based on the old FASA system, which was an RPG system that was licensed and thus legal but never made canon. Practically all of its details were refuted and removed by TNG.)

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2015 - 7:01 PM   
 By:   tex1272   (Member)

Intresting about the Enterprise A originally going to be the Yorktown. Early in THE VOYAGE HOME, the Yorktown was stopped dead in space by the probe and was said to try a make shift solar sail of some kind for the crew to survive.

 
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