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Posted: |
Jul 5, 2008 - 12:43 PM
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By: |
dogplant
(Member)
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I have mixed feelings about Pink Floyd. I was mad on three of their albums in my youth -- Meddle, Dark Side of the Moon and Wish You Were Here -- and used cues from those records on the soundtracks of many of my Super 8 movies.
When I started working in the film industry in London, I ended up running a cutting room for an animated feature film and Roger Waters provided the score, with his Bleeding Heart Band. I was excited to meet him, but all I can say is he did not seem to be a very happy man, at least back then in 1985. He brought a little cloud of gloom with him whenever he entered the room, like an upside down version of Pigpen in the Charlie Brown cartoons. I was a lowly grunt on the totem pole, and certainly had no creative interaction with him, but it was disappointing. I did not tell him about my Super 8s because I thought he'd probably not be happy to hear about them.
I still enjoy those three earlier Floyd albums, and Animals, and I too loved that Griffith Park laser light show, Sheriff Joe, but the later stuff and Mr Waters' solo work leaves me cold.
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Posted: |
Jul 5, 2008 - 4:13 PM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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When I started working in the film industry in London, I ended up running a cutting room for an animated feature film and Roger Waters provided the score, with his Bleeding Heart Band. I was excited to meet him, but all I can say is he did not seem to be a very happy man, at least back then in 1985. He brought a little cloud of gloom with him whenever he entered the room, like an upside down version of Pigpen in the Charlie Brown cartoons. I was a lowly grunt on the totem pole, and certainly had no creative interaction with him, but it was disappointing. I did not tell him about my Super 8s because I thought he'd probably not be happy to hear about them.
So you worked on WHEN THE WINDS BLOW? That's cool. It's a nice, albeit bleak, piece of animation.
He has always had that "disgruntled" aura around him, though. Acerbic wit and all that. It's part of who he is. I think it's kinda refreshing, though, especially if you're as well-read as he is. Also, this wasn't long after he had left Pink Floyd due to his conflict with Gilmour and the other members, so that may also have influenced his behaviour in a "creative setting".
In any case, his music still rocks! 
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Posted: |
Jul 5, 2008 - 7:10 PM
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By: |
dogplant
(Member)
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Oh yes, I worked on that film for a year an a half and I'm not listed at IMDb, boo hoo, poor me. I've not see it for 20 years but of course it's on YouTube (yes, the entire film). Here's the part when the bomb drops, which includes Roger's music and, if I remember correctly, some special sound effects devised by the late Tristram Carey:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntI-7vR2zRs
All the animation was hand rendered, with no computer graphics, and many of the backgrounds were filmed as models and then printed as 8x10 stills and re-photographed with painted cels laid over them on the rostrum camera. I was a bit critical of it all back then, and it was a tedious and harrowing film to work on -- I still have a paralyzing fear of anything related to nuclear attack -- but in retrospect it was quite creative.
The director Jimmy Murakami previously directed Battle Beyond the Stars and had a great sense of humor. The producer John Coates did the The Snowman, Yellow Submarine and the 'Soft Landing' opening sequence in Heavy Metal.
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Posted: |
Aug 22, 2011 - 10:30 AM
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By: |
jackfu
(Member)
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Pink Floyd benefitted from a certain synergy in that the whole was far greater than the parts. I always saw Roger Waters as the brains of the group, perhaps some genius there in getting his thoughts into lyrics. After he left the band certainly had no lyricist. David Gilmour’s guitar and vocals were unique and differentiated Pink Floyd from other bands. Rick Wright was the musical soul of the group and Nick Mason’s drumming formed the backbone of a sound that set them apart. Individually, none was the equal of the group; not that they were/are bad, just not as good individually as the band as a whole. Nor did/does the band fare well without its members. I loved and still listen to their early stuff. I initially enjoyed “The Wall”, but began to realize it was “Tommy” Redux personalized to Roger Waters. And Waters’ obsession with anti-war messages also began to grate. Perhaps instead of blaming the High Command for taking his daddy away he might have considered being grateful for the sacrifice his dad and others made to give him the freedom to express his outrage. The final straw for me was Waters forcing the group to fire Wright. After lyrically lecturing us on the need to establish a home for incurable tyrants and kings, Waters is at the same time threatening the other band mates if Wright isn’t forced to leave. Sounds pretty tyrannical to me, but I guess Waters saw no hypocrisy there. Wot’s… uh, the deal, Roger? Anyway, A Momentary Lapse Of Reason was okay, but suffered from a lack of lyrical punch after Waters’ departure. I really haven’t listened to anything they’ve done since and never have and don’t plan to listen to Waters' stuff sans Floyd.
God bless Rick Wright, may he rest in peace; dearly loved and sorely missed.
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Pink Floyd benefitted from a certain synergy in that the whole was far greater than the parts. I always saw Roger Waters as the brains of the group, perhaps some genius there in getting his thoughts into lyrics. After he left the band certainly had no lyricist. David Gilmour’s guitar and vocals were unique and differentiated Pink Floyd from other bands. Rick Wright was the musical soul of the group and Nick Mason’s drumming formed the backbone of a sound that set them apart. Individually, none was the equal of the group; not that they were/are bad, just not as good individually as the band as a whole. Nor did/does the band fare well without its members. I loved and still listen to their early stuff. I initially enjoyed “The Wall”, but began to realize it was “Tommy” Redux personalized to Roger Waters. And Waters’ obsession with anti-war messages also began to grate. Perhaps instead of blaming the High Command for taking his daddy away he might have considered being grateful for the sacrifice his dad and others made to give him the freedom to express his outrage. The final straw for me was Waters forcing the group to fire Wright. After lyrically lecturing us on the need to establish a home for incurable tyrants and kings, Waters is at the same time threatening the other band mates if Wright isn’t forced to leave. Sounds pretty tyrannical to me, but I guess Waters saw no hypocrisy there. Wot’s… uh, the deal, Roger? Anyway, A Momentary Lapse Of Reason was okay, but suffered from a lack of lyrical punch after Waters’ departure. I really haven’t listened to anything they’ve done since and never have and don’t plan to listen to Waters' stuff sans Floyd.
God bless Rick Wright, may he rest in peace; dearly loved and sorely missed.
I agree with much of this, but I think the Momentary Lapse Of reason-lyrics were great. Yet Another Movie for instance, I just LOVE the lyrics:
One sound, one single sound
One kiss, one single kiss
A face outside the window pane
However did it come to this?
A man who ran, a child who cried
A girl who heard, a voice that lied
The sun that burned a fiery red
The vision of an empty bed
The use of force, he was so tough
She'll soon submit, she's had enough
The march of fate, the broken will
Someone is lying very still
He has laughed and he has cried
He has fought and he has died
He's just the same as all the rest
He's not the worst, he's not the best
And still this ceaseless murmuring
The babbling that I brook
The seas of faces, eyes upraised
The empty screen, the vacant look
A man in black on a snow white horse,
A pointless life has run its course,
The red rimmed eyes, the tears still run
As he fades into the setting sun
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Posted: |
Aug 22, 2011 - 1:59 PM
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By: |
Octoberman
(Member)
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Pink Floyd benefitted from a certain synergy in that the whole was far greater than the parts. I always saw Roger Waters as the brains of the group, perhaps some genius there in getting his thoughts into lyrics. After he left the band certainly had no lyricist. David Gilmour’s guitar and vocals were unique and differentiated Pink Floyd from other bands. Rick Wright was the musical soul of the group and Nick Mason’s drumming formed the backbone of a sound that set them apart. Individually, none was the equal of the group; not that they were/are bad, just not as good individually as the band as a whole. Nor did/does the band fare well without its members. I loved and still listen to their early stuff. I initially enjoyed “The Wall”, but began to realize it was “Tommy” Redux personalized to Roger Waters. And Waters’ obsession with anti-war messages also began to grate. Perhaps instead of blaming the High Command for taking his daddy away he might have considered being grateful for the sacrifice his dad and others made to give him the freedom to express his outrage. The final straw for me was Waters forcing the group to fire Wright. After lyrically lecturing us on the need to establish a home for incurable tyrants and kings, Waters is at the same time threatening the other band mates if Wright isn’t forced to leave. Sounds pretty tyrannical to me, but I guess Waters saw no hypocrisy there. Wot’s… uh, the deal, Roger? Anyway, A Momentary Lapse Of Reason was okay, but suffered from a lack of lyrical punch after Waters’ departure. I really haven’t listened to anything they’ve done since and never have and don’t plan to listen to Waters' stuff sans Floyd.
God bless Rick Wright, may he rest in peace; dearly loved and sorely missed.
EXCELLENT post. Some great points there.
Lately I've found it SO ironic (as to be almost tragic) that now WATERS has finally gotten a warm, nostalgic fuzzy going on for the rest of the guys, only to find that most of his invitations to regroup are falling upon deaf ears. Too bad that it only took him 30 years to learn that, like the proverbial "dogs" to which he compares so much of humanity, you can kick them only so many times before they retaliate. After what he did to Wright, look how close he came to also convincing Mason that HIS skills were inadequate? Up until 1973 or so, Mason was the heartbeat who could always come up with muscular lines and tasteful fills. Eventually he was nearly reduced to the role of metronome.
Count me, too, among those that thought some of Gilmours latter lyrics were actually quite good. Maybe his difficulty was trying too self-consciously to make it read like poetry. A freer, stream-of-consciousness approach may have done the trick. Who can say?
While I'm at it, hearing Wright's voice on "Wearing The Inside Out" STILL gives me shivers. I know Anthony Moore wrote the words, but he sure as Hell NAILED a Wright-style lyric. Stunningly good track and SUCH a pleasure to hear Wright again.
PINK FLOYD... still 1st in space.
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Posted: |
Aug 22, 2011 - 3:01 PM
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By: |
jackfu
(Member)
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EXCELLENT post. Some great points there.
Lately I've found it SO ironic (as to be almost tragic) that now WATERS has finally gotten a warm, nostalgic fuzzy going on for the rest of the guys, only to find that most of his invitations to regroup are falling upon deaf ears. Too bad that it only took him 30 years to learn that, like the proverbial "dogs" to which he compares so much of humanity, you can kick them only so many times before they retaliate. After what he did to Wright, look how close he came to also convincing Mason that HIS skills were inadequate? Up until 1973 or so, Mason was the heartbeat who could always come up with muscular lines and tasteful fills. Eventually he was nearly reduced to the role of metronome.
Count me, too, among those that thought some of Gilmours latter lyrics were actually quite good. Maybe his difficulty was trying too self-consciously to make it read like poetry. A freer, stream-of-consciousness approach may have done the trick. Who can say?
While I'm at it, hearing Wright's voice on "Wearing The Inside Out" STILL gives me shivers. I know Anthony Moore wrote the words, but he sure as Hell NAILED a Wright-style lyric. Stunningly good track and SUCH a pleasure to hear Wright again.
PINK FLOYD... still 1st in space.
Thanks, Octoberman and First Breath, it's good to know I'm not the only one who has those feelings about Roger Waters. But, I admire his skills as a lyricist. I remember Rick Wright in his typically undestated way of saying that Waters was extremely difficult to work with. Maybe genius or near genius is that way sometimes. But it also makes me wonder as I think back, maybe those lyrics about madness weren't necessarily all about Syd?
I just think it's a shame that they couldn't work things out. What would Floyd intact be like now?
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Posted: |
Aug 22, 2011 - 3:35 PM
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By: |
El Goodo
(Member)
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I prefer the earlier stuff. I used to rate The Wall more, but I just find it the least interesting musically. It's alright, and has some great moments, and it's a brilliantly put together "production", a piece of, I dunno, audio rock theater - that's Bob Ezrin though, who'd spent the previous several years perfecting that kind of thing on Alice Cooper records.
I'll take Piper At The Gates of Dawn (any Syd fans here?), Meddle, More soundtrack, things like that.
Echoes to me is the quintessential Floyd track.
They need to officially release Scream Thy Last Scream/Vegetable Man, the last single with Syd Barrett. Even Smile's coming out this year for cryin out loud.
Did you know Kubrick asked for permission to use Atom Heart Mother for the Clockwork Orange soundtrack?
(Waters said no.)
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Posted: |
Aug 22, 2011 - 4:49 PM
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By: |
Octoberman
(Member)
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Thanks, Octoberman and First Breath, it's good to know I'm not the only one who has those feelings about Roger Waters. But, I admire his skills as a lyricist. I remember Rick Wright in his typically undestated way of saying that Waters was extremely difficult to work with. Maybe genius or near genius is that way sometimes. But it also makes me wonder as I think back, maybe those lyrics about madness weren't necessarily all about Syd?
I just think it's a shame that they couldn't work things out. What would Floyd intact be like now?
I'm not anti-Waters, by any means. But I can see how, in retrospect, that my comments may have looked that way. The man is a genius with words, beyond any doubt. He's just somewhat less than when it comes to relating to his comrades. I think that's the duality of the artistic muse. A person that is very gifted in some areas of their personality will generally lack something in another area.
When advance word came out that Bob Ezrin was producing "The Wall" I became 10x as expectant. Here was a producer that not only knows his craft inside and out, but also has a personality well-established enough that he can confidently act as referee when a particular "artiste" gets a little too over-bearing for the sake of the overall good of the project. "The Wall" would have suffered musically if Waters had free reign. He's certainly capable of writing a good tune occasionally, but when one listens to his demoes over the years, it's revealed that the "listenability" of PF can be placed mainly on Gilmour's shoulders.
Whenever I read Wright's opinions in interviews, especially about Waters, I am always amused at how diplomatic he was in his choice of words. Smart and classy man, he was.
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Posted: |
Oct 20, 2011 - 1:17 PM
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By: |
Octoberman
(Member)
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I spent the last couple of days getting reacquainted with "Momentary Lapse". I hadn't played it in ages, so I kept it in the car with me. In spite of all the auditory "sturm und drang", it's still a damn good listen. I used to hate "The Dogs Of War"... now, I kinda like it. "Yet Another Movie"... still completely brilliant.
It reminded me of an interview I read. I don't remember with who... probably James Guthrie. Well, whoever it was, they hinted that not long ago, Gilmour considered doing a remix of the whole album in an attempt to take the "80's" out of it. What a daft notion, I thought. The album, AND all it's brothers, are set in the times in which they were created. I dreaded the idea that one day they might actually do such a thing, because it only stood to reason that one day they'd want to remix the 70's out of "Dark Side", and then take the 60's out of "Piper".
Yikes! Where does the revisionist history end? For Heaven's sake, leave things alone and use your energies to make NEW music. (Of course, I'm not saying the remaining 3 should soldier on without Wright, as tantalizing as that prospect might be... I was just expressing a general philosophy!)
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