The cinema where I saw it must have had a defective print, because the version I was watching didn't have a score.
There were some ambient sounds and drums loops and power chords -- and a bad electric guitar trying to play Goldsmith's "Fireworks", but I didn't hear anything that sounded remotely like a score.
It's certainly not what I'd envisioned but no one wants to hear Ravel or Alex North in film scores anymore. I doubt most Hollywood execs even know Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe...
It doesn't have to be Ravel or Alex North. But how about something on the level of Captain Underpants -- is that too much to ask? Even Marvel scores like Ant-Man and Doctor Strange managed to have a memorable melody or two, and unique personality. So saying "Ravel and North don't fly in Hollywood any more" is no excuse, really.
It doesn't have to be Ravel or Alex North. But how about something on the level of Captain Underpants -- is that too much to ask? Even Marvel scores like Ant-Man and Doctor Strange managed to have a memorable melody or two, and unique personality. So saying "Ravel and North don't fly in Hollywood any more" is no excuse, really.
Yavar
I'd be happy if DCu or MCU hired Shapiro who is severely underrated IMO. CU is. Great example of what he's capable of in the action comic genre
It doesn't have to be Ravel or Alex North. But how about something on the level of Captain Underpants -- is that too much to ask? Even Marvel scores like Ant-Man and Doctor Strange managed to have a memorable melody or two, and unique personality. So saying "Ravel and North don't fly in Hollywood any more" is no excuse, really.
Yavar
Exactly. And how about a little fight? I know Rupert Gregson-Williams is not at all Jerry Goldsmith or Elmer Bernstein or especially not James Horner, but he and others could make something of an effort instead of just giving in. And copying temp tracks.
I'm reminded of Elmer Bernstein on "An American Werewolf in London", where he said the director wanted that darned song in the transformation scene. Elmer fought back and then even persuaded the director that should it not work out or the song couldn't be licensed, they'd not have the orchestra booked anymore. Elmer won out with reason and some fight and got to record his cue for the scene, even though the song ended up being used.
It doesn't have to be Ravel or Alex North. But how about something on the level of Captain Underpants -- is that too much to ask? Even Marvel scores like Ant-Man and Doctor Strange managed to have a memorable melody or two, and unique personality. So saying "Ravel and North don't fly in Hollywood any more" is no excuse, really.
Yavar
Exactly. And how about a little fight? I know Rupert Gregson-Williams is not at all Jerry Goldsmith or Elmer Bernstein or especially not James Horner, but he and others could make something of an effort instead of just giving in. And copying temp tracks.
I'm reminded of Elmer Bernstein on "An American Werewolf in London", where he said the director wanted that darned song in the transformation scene. Elmer fought back and then even persuaded the director that should it not work out or the song couldn't be licensed, they'd not have the orchestra booked anymore. Elmer won out with reason and some fight and got to record his cue for the scene, even though the song ended up being used.
Justin I'm sorry but I have to say something here- you assert RGW should say something to his boss who is working with 150 million budget and which a lot is riding on?. That's seriously deluded. Have you ever written music for money? It's really easy to say what you would do but the reality is these composers still have bills to pay, families to feed and a career to the think of. I seriously doubt Herrmann or Goldsmith would be actively getting work with their fiery personalities in this day and age. Like it or not, this is the reality of working for $$$ in any capacity unless you are independtly wealthy and have your own orchestra to perform anything you want.
This isn't jus levelled at you but towards the pervading sentiment on this forum where people have some crazy ideas about the world of film composing in this day and age. And I'm sure behind closed doors, many composers would agree with you, but to get the gig they have to dance to the studio's tune. It's easy to see how truly talented these folks are because more of them ARE composing concert works that aren't hindered by producers or focus groups and their music is markedly More interesting as such.
Anyhow it's fine to lament things- that's what the forum is for but let's be a little respectful to the composers because none of us seriously know what it's like to be working on that level in that system. The few who have composed music for media on a smaller scale can atttest to the BS you have to deal with however. Simple equation- do what your employer wants or take a call centre job.
davidcoscina is 100% right. And besides, An American Werewolf in London is not a major DC summer blockbuster and Rupert Gregson-Williams is not Elmer Bernstein. Completely different cases, and there is no way RGW was going to put his foot down and tell DC he knows what's best for their expensive property (and keep his job).
Elmer won out with reason and some fight and got to record his cue for the scene, even though the song ended up being used.
So he fought and he lost. But I guess the principle here is that he fought anyway. For all you know, RGW did the same...? (Probably not, because that would defy reason.)
I read elsewhere that there is some actual electric cello at parts. Not sure if that is some of what sounds like electric guitar. Still I don't remember much other than noticing the Wonder Woman motif repeated from BvS. I don't know that I would call it a theme though.
It's certainly not what I'd envisioned but no one wants to hear Ravel or Alex North in film scores anymore. I doubt most Hollywood execs even know Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe...
Wanna hear something really disturbing? I met a guy a couple of years ago who told me he loved soundtracks -- but didn't know who John Williams was. And this was someone in his 30s.
Still, The Force Awakens score was a hugely popular score, so there's hope.
But as far as Wonder Woman, I'd honestly have rather heard this in the movie...
Justin I'm sorry but I have to say something here- you assert RGW should say something to his boss who is working with 150 million budget and which a lot is riding on?. That's seriously deluded.
Indeed.
But beyond that, how in the world do we presume to know that Gregson-Williams never spoke his mind? Are we so sure he never expressed his own creative preferences?
Judging what happened behind-the-scenes based on the end result suggests you believe that a composer can record whatever he feels is right and somehow that will wind up in the movie even if it's not what his bosses want. A strange concept.
I, for one, would like to see some folks share some ideas for an edited playlist of highlights.
OK, how about...
03. Angel on the Wing (03:45) 05. Pain, Loss & Love (05:27) 06. No Man's Land (08:52) BEST TRACK 08. Wonder Woman's Wrath (04:06) 10. We Are All to Blame (03:11) 11. Hell Hath No Fury (03:58) 12. Lightning Strikes (03:35) 13. Trafalgar Celebration (04:50)
Bonus track (very much a love/hate cue - no warmth, but plenty of heavy pounding) 14. Action Reaction [aka End Credits] (05:54)
Thanks, that was a starting point for me. As I already said it's Transformers/Batman Begins, but it has a little more emotional weight.
This is the track list I ended up with:
Amazons of Themyscira History Lesson Angel on the Wing Pain, Loss & Love No Man's Land Wonder Woman's Wrath We Are All to Blame Hell Hath No Fury Lightning Strikes Trafalgar Celebration
But as far as Wonder Woman, I'd honestly have rather heard this in the movie...
I'm pretty sure that's FSM's own DavidinBerkeley on lead vocals with Tall Guy, Other Tall Guy, and Bruce Marshall on backup.
I love the '70s version and remember the show and Lynda Carter's hotness fondly, but for the Gal Gadot Era, I'll stick with RGW's score and Zimmy Baby's now-classic Wonder Woman theme.
Speaking of Zimmer's WW theme, the ladies in line behind me were saying how they had the Gadot theme in their minds all week leading up to seeing the film; way to go, regular peoplle, way to go, Hans.
The few who have composed music for media on a smaller scale can atttest to the BS you have to deal with however.
Hey, at least I didn't use the Hanson symphony over the end credits!
Lol! I actually enjoyed working on your film and loved writing the end credits cue. I've put that on my demo reel. It was more the ads I worked on subsequent to your film that were challenging at times.
Speaking of Zimmer's WW theme, the ladies in line behind me were saying how they had the Gadot theme in their minds all week leading up to seeing the film; way to go, regular peoplle, way to go, Hans.
Yeah, but the average person wouldn't know a "theme" unless you hit them on top of the head with it. Thus the screeching massacre of geese theme which is Wonder Women.
Edit: The classic theme actually works great in that video! Sadly I just saw the whole movie in that clip didn't I?
davidcoscina: Justin I'm sorry but I have to say something here- you assert RGW should say something to his boss who is working with 150 million budget and which a lot is riding on?.
Yes. The film will fail or succeeded regardless of whether Rupert spoke or did not speak up. Rupert will not lose the gig for speaking up a little. Rupert will not lose work. Just look at John Barry -- he became tough to work with, turned down assignments, walked, and was rejected, yet he still got work. I'm sure Rupert is amiable enough. He was, after all, hired for his talent and to help the film.
That's seriously deluded. Have you ever written music for money?
Excuse me, but I have never done a lot of things, but I can still speak about them, and so can you. This isn't middle school, let's strive a little higher here.
The few who have composed music for media on a smaller scale can atttest to the BS you have to deal with however. Simple equation- do what your employer wants or take a call centre job.
And on the opposite side of the spectrum, I've heard, red or been told by a people in the industry how it's a group effort and each tries his hardest. In fact, for what ever you think about my original comments, outside the composer and in other aspects of the film asking process, people are speaking up and making suggestions all of the time, but yet again and again I see film score fans over the years always seem to think it is only the composer who can't. This or that will happen or might happen. Can anybody cite me an example, hell, maybe three, out of the millions of scoring assignments and thousands of composers, where a composer stood up and got canned and his or her career suffered?
Tango Urilla:
And besides, An American Werewolf in London is not a major DC summer blockbuster and Rupert Gregson-Williams is not Elmer Bernstein. Completely different cases, and there is no way RGW was going to put his foot down and tell DC he knows what's best for their expensive property (and keep his job).
That's another thing I'm tired of. People give examples -- maybe things that occurred to them when better ones didn't -- and instead of talking about that, people just shoot down specific examples.
For all you know, RGW did the same...? (Probably not, because that would defy reason.)
Likely, yes, but I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, that this wasn't him at his best and that he at least tried to go beyond this.
And I'm back to the shoot down of specific examples. I did say in my initial post that others could make this effort.
Can anybody cite me an example, hell, maybe three, out of the millions of scoring assignments, where a composer stood up and got canned and his or her career suffered?
Elliot Goldenthal stood up about Tyler Bates' scoring assignment for 300.
That wasn't an assignment for him, there wasn't nothing to stand up and speak out; this was an after-the-fact lawsuit, which Elliot wasn't the only one to do. Elliot hasn't done much because of his head injury and unwillingness to want to do these big films anymore.
But for argument's sake, let's pretend none of that mattered. That would still be one. One. That's a lonely number. That's a margin of error number. You can't even tango with that number.
There are plenty of examples of composers whose scores were replaced because they delivered something not to the director's/the studio's liking, and having a big name like Silvestri or Goldsmith is no bulletproof vest in that regard.
As for composers whose careers tanked after being dubbed difficult to work with, maybe we haven't heard of them because their careers tanked...?
