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 Posted:   Nov 14, 2013 - 7:07 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

Aye Thomas, Williams appears to have approached his album presentation differently this time out. There are no combined cues that you usually get (Learning To Read & The Snow Fight?...Journey To Himmel Street & The Departure Of Max?). It's not like him.
I need to play it some more to get past the references I keep hearing from Angela's Ashes, Presumed Innocent and A.I.
I don't think I'm ever gonna truly love it, but I appreciate any new Williams at this stage in the game.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 14, 2013 - 9:18 AM   
 By:   Dan Hobgood   (Member)

An excellent review. It's good to see that despite having mostly short cues, each has "a beginning, middle and end." Williams is such a narrative composer. His music always seems to take us through some sort of journey, after which we feel enriched or somehow better. Thanks again.

Can't say I agree that Williams is "such a narrative composer." He's more of a character composer, and that's as nicely as I can put it.

Dan

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 14, 2013 - 9:39 AM   
 By:   Luc Van der Eeken   (Member)

An excellent review. It's good to see that despite having mostly short cues, each has "a beginning, middle and end." Williams is such a narrative composer. His music always seems to take us through some sort of journey, after which we feel enriched or somehow better. Thanks again.

Can't say I agree that Williams is "such a narrative composer." He's more of a character composer, and that's as nicely as I can put it.

Dan


Said it before and I'll say it again, you just can't bring yourself to say something nice about the man, can you...?!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 14, 2013 - 12:54 PM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

Well Luc, there's nothing worse than seeing your chosen deity being outshone by a brighter light...or was it a coin toss? wink

 
 Posted:   Nov 14, 2013 - 6:54 PM   
 By:   DavidCoscina   (Member)

Aye Thomas, Williams appears to have approached his album presentation differently this time out. There are no combined cues that you usually get (Learning To Read & The Snow Fight?...Journey To Himmel Street & The Departure Of Max?). It's not like him.
I need to play it some more to get past the references I keep hearing from Angela's Ashes, Presumed Innocent and A.I.
I don't think I'm ever gonna truly love it, but I appreciate any new Williams at this stage in the game.


I agree. I love Williams but this one is so so because of its strong ties to earlier scores. I will give it a few more listens however.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 14, 2013 - 11:02 PM   
 By:   Luc Van der Eeken   (Member)

Well Luc, there's nothing worse than seeing your chosen deity being outshone by a brighter light...or was it a coin toss? wink

Good one, Kev!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 5:04 PM   
 By:   Jon Broxton   (Member)

My review of THE BOOK THIEF, for anyone who is interested:

http://moviemusicuk.us/2013/11/16/the-book-thief-john-williams/

Jon

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 5:14 PM   
 By:   Pedestrian Wolf   (Member)

Wait, is literally everyone posting in this thread just talking about some movie? I only clicked on the thread because I was hoping to commiserate with the dozens of other poor souls who have lent books to John Williams, only to never see them again. He's been "borrowing" my copy of Against the Day for three years now, and I know there's no way he's actually trying to read it. I remember when he asked if he could take it for "just a few weeks," I even said to him, "Come on John Williams, you hated The Crying of Lot 49, and you got maybe 30 pages into Gravity's Rainbow before giving up. Maybe Pynchon just isn't your man." But he was deadset on this being the one that "clicked" with him, and three years later I'm sure it's still collecting dust on his shelf. "Book Thief" indeed, John Williams!

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2013 - 3:27 AM   
 By:   OnlyGoodMusic   (Member)

Made it through the entire album yesterday, but barely.

Not an experience I'm likely to repeat. It's a routine score that comes to life only in fits and starts (most of them in the second half of the album), and the deft and characteristic touches are few and far between. The first few cues are especially weak and desultory. The suspense music on the whole is very thin, and the piano theme comes dangerously close to Richard Clayderman territory. It's not so much reminiscent of Angela's Ashes as it is of the rather boring Presumed Innocent. There is nothing fresh or original about it, but I did not expect that anyway.

The final, 7-minute cue (most likely the End Title) is by far the best, and there at least is some decent thematic development. It's certainly not worth getting the album.

For Williams completists only.

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2013 - 7:31 AM   
 By:   johnmullin   (Member)

It's fine that you don't like the album, but don't you think it's a little premature to describe cues as "weak" and "purposeless" before you've seen the scenes that Williams was scoring? It seems to me that one can better evaluate "how a composer did" once you see the picture and get an understanding of what the music was attempting to do.

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2013 - 7:43 AM   
 By:   OnlyGoodMusic   (Member)

Wrong. When released as an album, the music has to be able to stand on its own two feet, or else it should not be heard independently. I'll probably never see the movie, as is the case with hundreds of film scores before - some of which work well as MUSIC. THAT is the yardstick by which CD releases must be measured, or else there's no point releasing the score in the first place.

BTW: Have the "reviewers" who raved about this (judgement being called into question) seen the movie? Hardly possible, since it hasn't enjoyed a general release yet.

But POSITIVE reviews are always welcome by the fanboys, and NEVER called into question. No surprise there!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2013 - 8:29 AM   
 By:   Luc Van der Eeken   (Member)

Wrong. When released as an album, the music has to be able to stand on its own two feet, or else it should not be heard independently. I'll probably never see the movie, as is the case with hundreds of film scores before - some of which work well as MUSIC. THAT is the yardstick by which CD releases must be measured, or else there's no point releasing the score in the first place.

BTW: Have the "reviewers" who raved about this (judgement being called into question) seen the movie? Hardly possible, since it hasn't enjoyed a general release yet.

But POSITIVE reviews are always welcome by the fanboys, and NEVER called into question. No surprise there!


Wow! Such an assessment after one listen that you 'barely got through'! You must be some kind of wunderkind calling other people's judgement into question. But fair enough, it is only your review and your opinion. But then you haven't been positive since you joined the board 5 months ago.
By the way, I am a big fan of Williams but there are several scores of his that don't appeal to me. The Book Thief however I happen to like very much...poor me.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2013 - 8:59 AM   
 By:   Vermithrax Pejorative   (Member)

>>>>>>But then you haven't been positive since you joined the board 5 months ago>>>>>

Agreed, OGM appears to be quite the Negative Egative wink

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2013 - 10:12 AM   
 By:   johnmullin   (Member)

Wrong. When released as an album, the music has to be able to stand on its own two feet, or else it should not be heard independently. I'll probably never see the movie, as is the case with hundreds of film scores before - some of which work well as MUSIC. THAT is the yardstick by which CD releases must be measured, or else there's no point releasing the score in the first place.

But you attacked the music itself for being "weak" and "desultory" (or "purposeless" for those of us who don't own a word-a-day calendar)... How can you possibly declare it that with any validity without understanding the context?

An example I can think of is from THE AVENGERS last year (a score that isn't popular here, I know)... When I listened to "They Called It," I thought it was 2:45 of basically nothing... a string bed that didn't really go anywhere. In the film, however, it plays under the death of a significant character and is surprisingly effective and moving. Now, I would argue that Silvestri scored that scene expertly... but it doesn't exactly make for the most dynamic listen on the CD. Does that mean that he did a poor job? Or the CD shouldn't have been released at all because it could not possibly be mistaken for a stand-alone concert work? I don't think either of those things are true.

Movie music does not exist for the purpose of "making a good album" - or at least it shouldn't. The reason John Williams got paid and the studio footed the bill for recording sessions with a big orchestra is to produce music that supports the movie. Whether it can be rearranged to make a good CD presentation is secondary. It's nice if it can, but that's not why it exists in the first place.

Again, it's fine that you don't like it, but just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean that it's crap or that it shouldn't have been released at all.

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2013 - 12:14 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

You can tell this film sucks by the newspaper adverts.
Positive quotes from two obscure critics and the odious Richard Roeper are all they could drag up.
Even quote queen Peter Travers apparently couldn't say anything nice!

Hopefully, John Williams score floats above the film
bruce

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2013 - 1:17 PM   
 By:   Bond1965   (Member)

You can tell this film sucks by the newspaper adverts.
Positive quotes from two obscure critics and the odious Richard Roeper are all they could drag up.
Even quote queen Peter Travers apparently couldn't say anything nice!

Hopefully, John Williams score floats above the film
bruce


Don't go by reviews or quotes.

I saw the film and thought it was beautifully made and very emotional.

The audience loved it too and applauded at the end.

My friend who works for a theater chain told me that while critics and reviews are negative to lukewarm, audiences have loved the film and in previews throughout the country have given it four stars.

Sometimes you need to judge something for yourself and not go by what others think.

James

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2013 - 1:22 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Even quote queen Peter Travers apparently couldn't say anything nice!

And after all these years on this board, neither can you.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2013 - 1:49 PM   
 By:   GoblinScore   (Member)

God, I hope I am not as cantankerous, hateful and just generally snarky when I'm old.....

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2013 - 4:16 PM   
 By:   On the Score   (Member)

God, I hope I am not as cantankerous, hateful and just generally snarky when I'm old.....

Well said James. Screw the critics. I'm an old snarky bastard, and was reduced to a pile of jelly by the end. Even listening to this beyond beautiful score has the same effect on me. GO!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 19, 2013 - 1:32 AM   
 By:   Vermithrax Pejorative   (Member)

OGM just sounds like another bitter JG worshipper who never quite got over the level of success JW has attained. Sad really.

 
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