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-Christian Bale was vastly underused if you consider that Batman's stuntdouble probably had more screen time
-I loved watching Ledger's Joker and Eckhart's Harvey Dent pre and post facial scarring. Maybe the Joker's philosophical side was coming through a bit too strong and out of character, but I took his words to mean that he was a culmination of society's hypocritical moralities that obviously parallel this modern, war-fatigued era
-Gary Oldman was awesome as always
-the score oddly worked as a sound effect or expected backdrop, but could have used some heroic, yet melancholic themes for Batman during those panoramic city shots
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Posted: |
Jul 20, 2008 - 11:26 AM
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By: |
random guy
(Member)
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that cue you're talking about from Begins is on the album, it's the first track, surprised you missed it. the slightly reworked version on Dark Knight isn't on the album though
But isn't the first track the music for the opening of Begins, after WB DC logos and then the Bat symbol breaking into several bats? The cue from Begins I am referring to is at the end, after Batman goes flying and covers the screen and the title Batman Begins appears. That cue is the same one used for the ending of Dark Knight, right when the title appears followed by "Directed by". And this exists in the end of track 2 "I'm Not A Hero", but is relatively short.
oh sorry, thought you meant the opening music. I refer to that cue as Back up, you can find it with the complete score if you look hard enough.
love to give the site I got mine from but I don't feel like getting banned, I love this website
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The was an early scene with Dent and Gordon that didn't need to be scored at all, and the score itself was too big for just a dialogue scene.
Yeah, you could feel the composer going: 'These guys are talking about noble things'.
The dramatic underscoring of dialogue scenes hasn't really been fantastic in either of these two films to date.
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Posted: |
Jul 20, 2008 - 6:11 PM
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By: |
TominAtl
(Member)
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"The Dark Knight" can now proudly sit on the "Greatest Comic Film" alongside "Superman: The Movie" , "Iron Man" and "Spider-Man 2".
In fact, I have no qualms making it one of the best film of this year. Yes, the tone is pitch black and rightly so. When dealing with multiple moral and ethical quandaries, not to mention the nature of evil, you're not going to be chasing rainbows and unicorns. You're going to get dirty to find answers, some of which you may not like. And down and dirty do our characters get.
The performances ,across the board, were spot on. Christian Bale nailing Bruce Wayne's moral dilemmas, Aaron Eckhardt's nifty transformation from do-gooder to the emotionally deranged "two-face", Gary Oldman's righteous but frustrated Commissioner Gordan, Maggie Gyllenhaal as the tough minded but heart divided Rachael Dawes, and then of course Heath Ledgers Joker. I remember when it was first announced when he was cast. I thought how in hell would he pull it off. I am here to say that he just didn't pull it off, he made an antagonist as memorable as Anthony Hopkins Hannibal Lector. From his mannerisms, vocal ticks and the use of his eyes, his Joker is as scary as he is smart, not to mention funny. I am just extremely sad that he did not live to get the accolades he has received, and rightly so. His performance doesn't live up to the hype as much as it shatters it! Slam dunk on an Oscar nomination.
The action scenes are bigger, more refined and thrilling than "Batman Begins". The so called "Bat Bike" is going to make a lot of guys jonesing for one. It's that cool. The downtown 18 wheeler action scene is one for the books.
The labyrinthine plot is big but not unfathomable. The mob/corporate connection was well done and believable. The script overall was very well done, drawing the story in real, modern time scenarios. The movie is really more like a crime drama with a morally confused main character who happens to be a superhero than vice versa. One is glued to every scene, every sentence, every shot, in this fantastically shot film. The cinematography looks like it was shot by Gordon Willis, which is complimentary enough for those who know his work.
As far as the score goes, it serves the film well. Yes, it has Hans Zimmer signature synth/drum loop style, and it is mixed quite loudly, but the brooding nature of it adds an extra layer of heaviness to the proceedings that, to this viewer, added to the drama albeit sometimes over the top. James Newton Howards quieter portions are nice but not audible enough for me to hear most of it. As far as the Jokers "one note" theme, I gotta tell you that it works and does so very well. Yes, it does hail back to Johnny Greedwoods "There Will be Blood". But I think it's usage was more akin to Williams "Jaws" theme. When you hear the Jokers theme begins, if he is unseen you know he is near and is about to strike. If you hear it while he is on screen, even if subdued, somehow or somewhere something bad is about to happen. It is a nifty device that is used brilliantly. But I seriously doubt that it is hardly listenable on CD. But it works wonderfully in the movie.
"The Dark Knight" is grand entertainment and smart movie making. Beginning with a great script and wonderful execution and leadership by Christopher Nolan and acted with extreme precision by the entire cast, this one is one for the books. While the movie is at 2 1/2 hours long, it moves at a good clip. My only worry is how can they possibly top this with part 3? It would seem to be futile to do so, but if Nolan and crew come back I'd pay to seem them try it. If only Heath Ledger were here too, the star might have aligned themselves rightly again.
****1/2(out of 5) for movie.
*** for score.
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Posted: |
Jul 20, 2008 - 6:32 PM
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By: |
TominAtl
(Member)
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"The Phantom" as your favorite? Interesting. That would explain your feelings about "The Dark Knight".
Well, theres an arguement to be made when the material sticks to its source and has a damn good time in doing so.
Besides, its a Simon Wincer movie written by the guy who wrote Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade. How much better can it get?
I'll agree on Boam. His passing was way too soon. Wincers early years were his best, particularly with "The Lighthorsemen" and "Lonesome Dove" , but he also did "Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man". Enough said the last one.
But I'm sorry Leha, while I respect your opinion on the movie as I do everyone elses, "The Phantom" is just too "Walt Disneyish", if I may use the term. And I could never get around that damned purple "Barney" outfit. Yeah, I know, it was in the strip. But Billy Zane just looked damned silly on celluloid. And if you can't take your superhero the least bit serious, neither can you the movie. It was juvenile entertainment at best.
But hey, to each their own.
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Notice the possible clue for next film's villian? (The suit will protect you against CATS...-Morgan Freeman)
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Posted: |
Jul 20, 2008 - 10:35 PM
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By: |
Reeler
(Member)
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At TJ's request, my review.
The problem with The Dark Knight is the exact same problem with V For Vendetta - hand-holding. Both movies set up specific push-button pins to be knocked down at the convenience of the writer and not the story. "Show, don't tell" Mark Twain famously said and The Dark Knight breaks that rule many times over.
Its greatest fault is exposition. The first scene is a set-up, not for character but for character naming. By name, the Joker is mentioned several times over in the most blatantly awful way possible: several of his cronies rob a bank with dialogue in the following...
ROBBER #1: Boy, whats up with that clown looking guy that hired us?
ROBBER #2: The Joker? That make-up scares me!
ROBBER #3: Yeah, I hear he paints his face and his hair is green!
ROBBER #4: (Other room) Boy, I better not fuck with my boss, the Joker!
There is no need to know why these people work for him - they're wearing clown masks as they rob the bank. We get the connection before a word is spoken. One mention would have done, even an insinuation - not enough expository detail to make a police sketch out of.
However, the exposition of character motivation is even worse. Instead of leaving moral judgements to the audience to interpret, we're brow-beaten with huge, long scenes of talking as characters discuss things like crime, the nature of chaos and mythos with the same dry, literal sense of a Jane Austin novel. The last scene in the movie involves Batman being chased out of a Gotham building, through the city streets and into the "daylight" above. As far as symbolism goes, thats on the level of Superman / Jesus or Hal 9000 / Humanity. But then add to it a huge, long voice over by Jim Gordon, explaining to the audience the great sacrifices made by Batman to uphold a greater ideal of justice and personal commitment.
Another astonishing idiotic twist that was pulled out of the hat pretty frequently was the long winded "character motivation" essay. I assume Nolan realized too late that no one was doing anything with all this jumping around and fighting police officers, so instead of leaving the audience to think for themselves on any moral subject, he decided what you should think. To again quote Twain, this time about James Fennimore Cooper's novels - "Every time a Cooper person is in peril, and absolute silence is worth four dollars a minute, he is sure to step on a dry twig. There may be a hundred other handier things to step on, but that wouldn't satisfy Cooper. Cooper requires him to turn out and find a dry twig; and if he can't do it, go and borrow one." Huge, long sections involving obvious McGuffins and plot devices and props come and go and get knocked over in succession like dominoes. Nolan creates similar problems by attempting bad comedy through worse Greek Theater. BATMAN MUST MAKE A CHOICE IN A DEADLY GAME OF CAT AND MOUSE - WHICH PERSON WILL HE SAVE? Of course he saves the obvious one because that sets up the second half of the movie! Leave no stone unturned, eh Mr Nolan?
The shining example of this is the scene where Gordon is shot dead, brought back and then Batman's girlfriend is killed. You don't jerk your audience around like that; you can't kill someone, bring THEM back and then actually kill someone else. Thats BAD writing and creates a giant hole in terms of pacing. Stop fucking with your plot developments, Nolan.
Heath Ledger's performance is amazingly bland. I should note I never found him much of an actor but the talk about his role in this movie is beyond overblown. Half of it is his fault - theres no sense of character motivation nor is there any exposition toward such (though I'll give them credit for avoiding any origin explanation), so now we have this "crazy" running over half the movie. A bigger problem is that his entire characterization is a dinner theater interpretation of Brad Pitt in 12 Monkeys by a high school drama student - until the last scene where he waxes long and hard about duology and the necessity of opposing forces in nature. Give me a F*CKING BREAK.
Yes, the Joker introduces himself as "an agent of chaos". For a guy who's suppose to be chaotic, you sure do have a lot of elaborate set-ups. Isn't that contradictory? More over, it makes less sense since its never bothered to establish WHY hes this way. So we're left blowing in the breeze. More over again, every set-up the Joker does is something I've seen already. Calling a pager to set off a bomb has been done how many times? Using knives to make repeated copycat attacks is from how many other movies? For someone that everyone talks about with the same breath as Academy Award, the character carries absolutely nothing at any point in the movie.
I enjoyed Batman Begins immensely, but this movie is a fucking awful mess made to pander first year college students between drinking games.
Why did you like Batman Begins?
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well I don't know if Catwoman is the next villian(ess) but certainly might be interesting if re-done like The Joker. I can't see The Penguin fitting in this series either...and who does that leave for villians? Riddler? Mr. Freeze? (God no!)
I enjoyed the film (saw it yesterday afternoon) but as good as Heath's Joker is....I still don't care for the "disheveled heroin addict" look they did on him. Music suited the action...nothing that makes me want to rush out and buy the CD.
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