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I agree with Joan: an overrated score to an overrated movie. The problem with Chinatown is, like a lot of mysteries, it's all about who did what to whom, and why, but precious little about genuine human feeling, of which Chinatown has little. A few seconds of
"She's my sister -- !"
SLAP!
"My Daughter -- !"
SLAP!
"My sister -- !"
SLAP!
"My daughter -- !"
Simply doesn't cut it in that department.
Now, Billy Wilder's and I.A.L. Diamond's The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes is another matter, entirely...
A perfect score to a perfect movie. And therin lies horse racing. As to the Wilder, I'm a big fan of it, but it is hardly perfect and its flaws are many. I forgive them, but they're there for all to see. And if you think Chinatown is an overrated film and score, I cannot help you.
I don't know how to help Joan either, other than to say that the score and the images, characters, and settings it supports are a perfect marriage in every way. That's what a great score does.
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Friends,
I am definitely one of those for whom Chinatown is a great piece of work and one of my all-time favorites (and I don't especially like detective movies). It's a very politically loaded movie about the building of American society and, dare, I say, the "meaning of life," which is that you are doomed to fail, but you must try anyway. John Huston as Noah Cross is one of the great screen villains, for whom power in society and control of women is the same thing...the brilliance of the plot is how it dove-tails the two mysteries, the mystery of the water and of "the girl," and how they are both Cross's to possess. And Nicholson as Gittes gives one of the great, engaging performances of the everyman who takes solace in his own pride in the absence of real power. Finally Dunaway is the perfect femme fatale who, in a brilliant reversal, is the most tragic figure in the story, and the most sympathetic character once her motivations are understood. So you have a great, meaningful story that is expertly told by Towne, Polanski and the production crew, with endlessly interesting, pleasurable touches in the recreation of 1930s Los Angeles and the unfolding of the narrative -- this was a great director at the height of his powers. Goldsmith's score is spot-on perfect and a real treasure for us Jerry fans in that it's one of the half-dozen times in his life for which he got to score a grade A+ film that is an art masterpiece as well as a genre picture as well -- as Jerry was, above all, a genre composer. The theme is one of those rare film music creations you can play for just about anyone and they will enjoy hearing it -- and the score is a quinetessential example of Goldsmith's economy and brilliance of color (the brushed piano strings) and melody. I don't know quite what to make of people who say it doesn't have enough feeling...I guess these things are in the eye (and heart) of the beholder.
About L.A. Confidential, that's a very good, strong picture with much of the same themes as Chinatown, but it is somewhat undone artistically (but was probably saved commercially) by the "up" ending that contradicts the otherwise consistent (with Chinatown) look at power and politics. I never thought that Goldsmith's score was as close to being as good or meaningful as Chinatown (and this is the only Goldsmith score I was at the recording sessions for -- I thought it at the time, too) and I was surprised at how close he got to On the Waterfront for the main theme. But it's certainly not a bad score or wrong for the picture.
Lukas
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Mr. Cremers, are those the ONLY Polanski movies you can call out - Frantic and Pirates??? Please. Every director has their Frantic and Pirates, including Mr. Hitchcock, Mr. Ford, Mr. Wilder and just about every other director ever.
Try seeing Knife In The Water, Repulsion, Cul-de-Sac, and most especially Rosemary's Baby, one of the most beautifully-directed films of the last five decades. His early films are very quirky, but unique to him. He floundered after his problems in the US and fleeing the country. Floundered for many years, before finally returning to form with films that don't really look or feel like Polanski films, but which are very good films. His last Polanski-like film that really works is The Tenant.
I don't think you should watch Chinatown again, if you've seen it twice and haven't liked it. Of course, if the twice you saw it was on TV, and the film wasn't in its proper ratio, well, then, yes, you might want to give it another try.
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Posted: |
Jan 26, 2006 - 3:36 PM
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By: |
Alexcremers
(Member)
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Mr. Cremers, are those the ONLY Polanski movies you can call out - Frantic and Pirates??? Please. Every director has their Frantic and Pirates, including Mr. Hitchcock, Mr. Ford, Mr. Wilder and just about every other director ever.
Try seeing Knife In The Water, Repulsion, Cul-de-Sac, and most especially Rosemary's Baby, one of the most beautifully-directed films of the last five decades. His early films are very quirky, but unique to him. He floundered after his problems in the US and fleeing the country. Floundered for many years, before finally returning to form with films that don't really look or feel like Polanski films, but which are very good films. His last Polanski-like film that really works is The Tenant.
I don't think you should watch Chinatown again, if you've seen it twice and haven't liked it. Of course, if the twice you saw it was on TV, and the film wasn't in its proper ratio, well, then, yes, you might want to give it another try.
Both times were on TV. How's the DVD, BTW?
Say, don't forget, I also mentioned Tess. I've seen Rosemary's Baby twice. Knive in the Water, The Fearless Vampire Killers, Bitter Moon and The Ninth Gate only once.
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Posted: |
Jan 26, 2006 - 4:47 PM
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By: |
Oblicno
(Member)
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L.A. Confidential's ending is in the book. Well, Bud White living anyway:
'He had tubes in his arms splints on his fingers. His chest held three hundred stitches. Bullets had shattered bones, ripped arteries. He had a plate in his head. Lynn Bracken tended to him...'
I really enjoy the film, and it got me reading the book and other James Ellroy books. I appreciated the film more after seeing how it adapted and condensed the mammoth L.A. Confidential novel so brilliantly. In the novel, Spacey's character is also killed but in a different,more throw-away manner.
I like the film and the book because the characters appear to me at least to have realistic attitudes regarding race, sex, violence, for those types of people living at that time. I like the film and score more than Chinatown because i watched it at a better time of my life, so it has connections outside of which has the better script/acting/direction etc... and i have seen it more often.
They're both fine films, which i would watch any day of the week. Nobody loses with these films.
I think Bernstein would have done an excellent job, by the by.
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I'm always astonished when I hear that people don't like films, only to find out they've only seen them on television. Chinatown is a scope film, and on TV it's a mess and a travesty. The DVD is anamorphic widescreen, but it was done several years ago and could be much better now. However, it's perfectly fine and you should watch the film in the way it was intended to be seen. There are also a few extras, which is normally not the case with Paramount. I think I'll watch it again over the weekend - it's interesting to me that Polanski has made two films that I never ever tire of watching - Chinatown and Rosemary's Baby - each of them is absolute perfection in every way - from the direction to the writing to the casting to the wardrobe to the settings to the music. If he had only made those two films he would be in my pantheon of great directors.
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I'm always astonished when I hear that people don't like films, only to find out they've only seen them on television. Chinatown is a scope film, and on TV it's a mess and a travesty. The DVD is anamorphic widescreen, but it was done several years ago and could be much better now. However, it's perfectly fine and you should watch the film in the way it was intended to be seen. There are also a few extras, which is normally not the case with Paramount. I think I'll watch it again over the weekend - it's interesting to me that Polanski has made two films that I never ever tire of watching - Chinatown and Rosemary's Baby - each of them is absolute perfection in every way - from the direction to the writing to the casting to the wardrobe to the settings to the music. If he had only made those two films he would be in my pantheon of great directors.
I could not agree with you more. Both are brilliant movies, the former one of my personal top 10 movies of all time. Your comments regarding viewing Chinatown in full Panavision caught my attention because I have always thought that without seeing it in it's theatrical presentation it damn near ruins the movie. Great script, cast, director, composer- When the re-birth of American Cinema is heralded as being the 70's, this picture is on the top of the heap.
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It's been so long (thank God) since I've seen CHINATOWN on pan and scan TV as opposed to on the big theater screen that I can't recall specifics of that unfortunate video presentation (on L.A.'s late, lamented Z Channel). But I'll bet it makes a hash of a crucial long scene near the end of the picture which was shot on one continuous take; all the tension derived from that continuous take would be lost, I'm thinking, especially if they "cut" instead of pan from side to side of the screen. Anyhow, that scene -- some of its dialogue has been quoted above in somebody else's post -- is just one of the many brilliances and perfections in CHINATOWN. Thank heaven for letterbox DVD's, but it really is a shame that more localities don't have revival theaters so that more people could REALLY see such films as they were intended and get their full impact.
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It's been so long (thank God) since I've seen CHINATOWN on pan and scan TV as opposed to on the big theater screen that I can't recall specifics of that unfortunate video presentation (on L.A.'s late, lamented Z Channel). But I'll bet it makes a hash of a crucial long scene near the end of the picture which was shot on one continuous take; all the tension derived from that continuous take would be lost, I'm thinking, especially if they "cut" instead of pan from side to side of the screen. Anyhow, that scene -- some of its dialogue has been quoted above in somebody else's post -- is just one of the many brilliances and perfections in CHINATOWN. Thank heaven for letterbox DVD's, but it really is a shame that more localities don't have revival theaters so that more people could REALLY see such films as they were intended and get their full impact.
My life long best friend and I saw Chinatown in it's initial release in June of 1974 as High School students. My first comment when we left the theater was, "I think we just may have seen a "great Movie" That opinion has only grown over 30 years. I was in 16 mm non theatrical film rental for several years as a college student in the late 70's and for a 2 year period we had Paramount distribution rights for schools, churches, civic groups, etc. and I had access to 3 Panavision prints of Chinatown. Watching the movie in it's intended format one catches activity peripherally happing just on the edge of the screen, like catching something out of the corner of one's eyes. I have felt vindicated over the years that it has, indeed, become an American Film Classic. By the way, Preston, I ordered a brand new copy of your Night of the Hunter book on Amazon today! I'd be honored to have you inscribe it.
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Preston's book is excellent. Now he should do one on Chinatown.
Many years ago, they published the screenplay as a beautiful limited edition book, with a wonderful forward by Towne. It's gone now, but can still be found somewhat reasonably if you look for it hard enough.
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Preston's book is excellent. Now he should do one on Chinatown.
Many years ago, they published the screenplay as a beautiful limited edition book, with a wonderful forward by Towne. It's gone now, but can still be found somewhat reasonably if you look for it hard enough.
I'm aware of that printed screenplay, and ought to start hunting for it. About 10 years ago an article titled "The Long Road to Chinatown" (no doubt dubbed after Robert Evan's Long Road Productions nomenclature)appeared in Premiere magazine and chronicled the genesis and filming of it, and was very interesting. It deserves a book length treatment.
"You may think you know what you're dealing with- but believe me, you don't..."
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"The future, Mr. Gitt(e)s, the future."
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