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Posted: |
Jul 29, 2011 - 7:23 AM
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By: |
Superman
(Member)
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The action writing in this astounds me. And Horner really knows how to have fun w/ it (poking fun at himself at the same time) with some really zany phrases and instrument usage. They really put him on the spot for this one and he knew it, being that he was working w/ Lucas of recent Star Wars mega-fame, and Ron Howard (hot off of at least 3 hits). You can tell that he knew it by listening to what he has to say musically. I remember hearing Escape from the Tavern for the first time and being très excité, floored even, because it was by the guy who did Krull. It was filling my desire for GREAT scores! That cue alone gave many sheer pleasure. Pleasurable bombast!!
Regardless of how you may or may not feel about the movie, the score is a brilliant patchwork of the known and unknown; of unoriginal and original.
He sure gets his share of criticism for borrowing(this is absolutely the right term for it), but, I ask you, how would we EVER be able to know what Horner has to say artistically without being able to compare/contrast it to other well-placed snippets? Everybody else borrows. And I mean EVERYBODY. So what? Everybody breathes too. I only wish that Horner would return to his roots and belt out an action classic every couple of years. But we certainly know why, given the new climate in film. Probably for the best. Just not musically, it seems to me.
With a great composer like James Horner, the score needs to fit the film. The good news is that he is young enough to be a part of the renaissance in film, whenever it decides to arrive again.
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Posted: |
Jul 29, 2011 - 12:35 PM
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By: |
Avatarded
(Member)
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The first three bars of the Schumann theme are almost unaltered, but Horner then proceeds to develop and use it as if it were his own, which is great..
That is where Horner is different than other composers. If he's quoting a piece of music, he is literally quoting it. That is what he wants to make use of and it is obvious, it is blatant, it is intentional. That's the whole point. Horner was never interested in "homage", in "inspiration". If he wants a melody, he will use it. Then he will take it somewhere else but the foundation for it is clear.
This applies to both music he wrote himself, and music he is adapting into his own.
So what is it that makes people get all riled up over this, that he doesn't credit on the album's liner notes? What about the printed sheet music? What about the musicians who perform the music? What about the editors, engineers and other crew, or the filmmakers who may or may not have a passing familiarity with these things?
This is how Horner works, this is how he's always worked. People want to call him "lazy", people want to call him "hack", people want to drag out that article by Alex Ross from almost a decade ago just to make their point, as if Ross' one opinion is somehow more valid. No one's opinion is more valid than someone else's just because it may not be as popular. I am of the unpopular opinion that Horner is NOT a hack or lazy or whatever negative buzzword people just love to use. That's the kicker - people enjoy being negative, enjoy criticizing, enjoy 'bashing'. It's much easier and apparently "fun" to do that than to be nice or look at things from a more positive perspective.
I love the music of a lazy thieving hack. I've said here in the past I wonder what that makes those detractors think of the fans themselves. How could anyone in their right mind NOT see Horner for what he supposedly is, right? Must be lacking morals, or lacking taste, or just wearing blinders.
It's also quite telling that if Horner is apparently so lazy and steals from everyone, that his own musical voice and style is so strong and everyone can point out a Horner score easily. Another point is if this wasn't FILM music, chances are this wouldn't be an issue at all. Film music is the one area where developing your own ideas from one project to another, as well as borrowing / quoting ideas is completely, utterly condemned.
This is all of course one guy's little opinion.
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Posted: |
Jul 29, 2011 - 12:53 PM
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By: |
Jon Lewis
(Member)
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Avatarded, I pretty much agree with your first paragraph.
However, I do think his self-quoting can sometimes be dramaturgically harmful, more so than his classical reappropriating. Because when people DO recognize a self-quotation it makes them think of an entirely different film.
Example: shortly after AVATAR, I was listening to some people discuss it at a party. They began discussing the score and my ears perked up. One was saying how distracting it was that he kept hearing "music from TITANIC" in it and one of the others agreed. These were rock guys, not film score aficionados-- they didn't seem to know Horner by name, even.
(For my part, I've somehow managed to avoid ever seeing TITANIC or hearing its score except in trailers, commercials, etc. So it didn't trouble me during AVATAR.)
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Listening to it again...
Pretty great, after all those years.
And still no remastered (or expanded) version in the works?
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Just saying... any label interested and allowed to release this in 2018?
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Roger has heavily implied Willow in being worked on by Intrada (and given it's Lucasfilm, it's doubtful it'd be any other label anyway)
This is great news! I really hope it's not on the same timeline as Conan The Destroyer, I'd love to have this sooner. Thank you Roger.
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.....for release.
![](http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1023997582150&id=404f2d9fbf8c6d91d6a73eb89045abc7&url=http%3a%2f%2f<A HREF="http://www.mattfind.com%2f12345673215-3-2-3_img%2fmovie%2fx%2fz%2fk%2fwillow_1988_450x250_338497.jpg" TARGET="_BLANK">www.mattfind.com%2f12345673215-3-2-3_img%2fmovie%2fx%2fz%2fk%2fwillow_1988_450x250_338497.jpg</A>)
![](http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=990215153434&id=751f14e4a3817822dfaf029fd1f1863c&url=http%3a%2f%2f<A HREF="http://www.watchh.net%2fimdb%2fimages%2ftt0096446.jpg" TARGET="_BLANK">www.watchh.net%2fimdb%2fimages%2ftt0096446.jpg</A>)
![](http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1040098337554&id=dedc07a766ee8cae3407925e5ca77542&url=http%3a%2f%2f<A HREF="http://www.willow.20m.com%2fimages%2fwillow-white.gif" TARGET="_BLANK">www.willow.20m.com%2fimages%2fwillow-white.gif</A>)
![](http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=997363425558&id=8edbaeb8e918595514eeef7be8c18eb4&url=http%3a%2f%2f<A HREF="http://www.nadobra.com%2flabyrinth%2fother%2fwillow3.jpg" TARGET="_BLANK">www.nadobra.com%2flabyrinth%2fother%2fwillow3.jpg</A>)
