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 Posted:   Mar 17, 2015 - 10:00 AM   
 By:   zippy   (Member)

This score, like "The Rievers", truly needs a definitive release. Particularly this year with the attention that John Williams will without a doubt be getting for his return to the "Star Wars" franchise.

It guts me when I do run across either score in the cd bins, that the asking price for these inferior releases is as though they were rare treasures.

How about making some money, labels?
Varese
Intrada
La La Land
Kritzerland
----------------US

Quartet
Music Box
--------------EU

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 17, 2015 - 10:51 AM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

Well that's the problem there zip.
ONLY Varese can make any money on future COWBOYS releases cos they control the rights to it in perp.
If I remember correctly, the folks at La La Land have tried to get into THE REIVERS but claim it's a right(s) nightmare to untangle.
But, I'm sure they're trying their hardest to bring us the goodies we treasure.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 17, 2015 - 12:23 PM   
 By:   zippy   (Member)

And this "perp" issue is only Varese?
Seems like a rather greedy thing to do. When did they start laying all future claims to soundtrack recordings?


Look, I'll give plenty of respect to Varese for being the first label to venture out and supply our market with the music we crave, but it's business decisions like this perpetuity thing and decades of those 30 min. Cd's that leaves me with doubts over the sincerity of the label.

Not to kiss-ass here, but FSM ALWAYS felt like a pure balance of love for the music and respect for the fans.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 17, 2015 - 12:59 PM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

No argument from me there zip.
Varese seem to own more stuff than they're capable of expanding or re-releasing.

 
 Posted:   Mar 17, 2015 - 12:59 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

And this "perp" issue is only Varese?

No.

Varèse simply negotiated the best rights they could get when making these deals. Just as all the other labels do. People direct their annoyance at Varèse because, as pretty much the only game for a decade or two, they happen to have more perp licenses than the other labels. (And also, I suppose, because they revisit scores they own less frequently than we'd like.) But many other labels own scores in perpetuity, for the same reason Varèse does -- they negotiated for it. Seems like the definition of a free market to me.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 17, 2015 - 2:12 PM   
 By:   zippy   (Member)

Edited my free market comment. Scatter-shot vent of frustration there.
@Schiffym
Can you give some examples of other labels who have negotiated perpetuity?

 
 Posted:   Mar 17, 2015 - 2:53 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

Can you give some examples of other labels who have negotiated perpetuity?

There are hundreds of examples, but off the top of my head, GNP/Crescendo retains perpuity rights to the "Star Trek" feature scores they released, and some of the TV scores too (which kept most of "Best of Both Worlds" off the FSM Ron Jones set). Silva has perp rights to Goldsmith's "Legend," and actually kept Varèse from reissuing it. And those are just the tips of the iceberg.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 25, 2015 - 4:26 PM   
 By:   KonstantinosZ   (Member)

Just finished watching the film for the first time!
Although I'm not a western fan, it was a quite good film, and naturally I enjoyed more the music!
I would love too a complete score of this.

The cue that impressed me more in the film, was the "Bedtime Story" track from the cd.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 25, 2015 - 4:33 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

AAARGH! You guys are doing this just to piss me off, I tell ya!

THIS is the official thread for discussion about the film and score:

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=20176&forumID=1&archive=1

This thread is about some weird detail thingie in the soundtrack.

 
 Posted:   Mar 25, 2015 - 4:46 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

THIS is the official thread for discussion about the film and score

There is no official thread for anything. This is a message board.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 25, 2015 - 4:53 PM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

Yeah Thor, get over yourself.

 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2015 - 4:10 AM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

Schiffy brings up an important point — the reason we keep coming up with Varèse with titles that they hold in perpetuity is because for about a decade they were one of the very few labels releasing film scores.

And yes, the 30 minute albums from the 90s are frustrating, but I'd rather have had the 30 minute album we got than have no album at all, which would have been the alternative. It should be noted that Varèse was far from the only label putting out 30 minute albums of scores, it's which scores and what they were or weren't accompanied by (an album that is half score and half songs is a llama of a different color) that is the issue.

 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2015 - 4:49 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

THIS is the official thread for discussion about the film and score

There is no official thread for anything. This is a message board.


Of course, you're right, this is a message board and conversations flow as they see fit, governed by their own laws.

However, I'm with Thor on his resurrection of older threads. Lots of things have already been said about THE COWBOYS in that thread, and it is nice to integrate previous threads into current discussions, instead of re-talking basically the same stuff over and over again that's been said already.

Having said that: THE COWBOYS was probably my very first encounter with any music by John Williams.. before STAR WARS, before RAIDERS, before JAWS... there was... THE COWBOYS. I could hum that tune as a kid... it was only years later that I learned the name of the composer.

 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2015 - 4:51 AM   
 By:   The Thing   (Member)

Thor,

Please lighten up with your OCD.

This is not YOUR forum.

People are free to use forums as they wish.

I've been doing a lot of research using this board (via Google searches) over the last couple of months about any score topic that I think about that interests me, and am gobsmacked at how many threads deteriorate once the Thor Police appears, which doesn't help me one bit. And some of these threads are from many years ago.

So that suggests your comments are futile. You'll make yourself ill by constantly being in stressed mode.

You want a forum that is nicely indexed and categorised. I want a forum that doesn't descend into petty arguments.

None of us will get what we want.

Use Google for your searches, and it won't matter if the library is a mess.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2015 - 4:52 AM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

Aye Josh, at the time, those 30 minute CD's were the best we could ever dream of.
While the big labels could throw out some 60-70 minute score presentations, Varese and the composer had to distill the score to that short programme (although I happen to think SOME of those 30 min releases were/are perfect as they are).
Now, years later, with the rules changed, they have so many scores that could be expanded upon but their production line is a bit choked somewhat.
It was obviously good business sense back then to negotiate the deal the way they did.
They now sit on some prime real estate and can make some cash as and when they choose.
I guess our only virtue is patience!
Having said that, when I read Roger's comment re THE COWBOYS, my heart sank a bit.
I think Intrada or LaLa Land might be a bit 'speedier' if working on a more complete release of COWBOYS, but that's based on nothing more than my imagination smile

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2015 - 5:33 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I should point out that my previous post was made partially tongue-in-cheek, partially serious. The humour bit is obviously in the exaggerated reaction and the 'official' bit, the serious was in the fact that I do not quite understand why this esoteric thread is being ressurected, while it's more convenient to build on the existing flow of conversation in the other one - especially as far as general musings are concerned. No biggie, though. But it once again demonstrates how difficult it is to do posts here that aren't either extremely serious or blatantly humorous.

I don't think there's any other film music forum on the net where people are so eager to misinterpret the tone of your posts. Insert smiley face, winkey winkey.

 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2015 - 5:57 AM   
 By:   Thomas   (Member)

But it once again demonstrates how difficult it is to do posts here that aren't either extremely serious or blatantly humorous.

I don't think there's any other film music forum on the net where people are so eager to misinterpret the tone of your posts. Insert smiley face, winkey winkey.

Yeah it's just not JWFAN, is it Thor?

 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2015 - 6:03 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

I hereby declare with the authority vested upon me by me through me for me the thread with the ID=20176 & forum ID=1&archive=1 ( http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=20176&forumID=1&archive=1 ) to the one and only official thread for any discussion around John Williams' score for THE COWBOYS. Consider henceforth the discussions in other threads -- including this one -- about John Williams's score for THE COWBOYS apocryphal and non-canon.

There. That should settle it.

 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2015 - 6:08 AM   
 By:   CindyLover   (Member)

Roger F at Intrada says this...

"It's easy to make a private LP (re The Cowboys original LP issue) longer when you aren't paying anybody. When Varese issued this new, re-use fees were much more restrictive, so there was no way to financially do a longer album. However, that has changed so it's open season on an expansion...for Varese. They control the license in perpetuity"

--------
We need to campaign Varese to get this baby re-issued with every fantastic note ever written for it!


Luckily it's John Williams, so it's more than likely a case of sooner or later. (Had it been Jerry Goldsmith we'd likely already have gotten it from the label.)

 
 Posted:   Mar 26, 2015 - 6:18 AM   
 By:   The Thing   (Member)

...I do not quite understand why this esoteric thread is being ressurected, while it's more convenient to build on the existing flow of conversation in the other one - especially as far as general musings are concerned.


Probably because someone was too scared to start a new thread, and then suffer the Wrath of Thor (smiley, winky).

They don't have the entire history of this forum committed to memory, so did a quick search and found this thread to add to.

And no-one else cares about such trivial issues, they just want to discuss something, here and now.

I know you probably do this tongue in cheek at times, but it really does come across as trolling. Especially, as I said earlier, when my own research through this forum's historical posts is repeatedly being spoilt once you become the focus of each topic.

 
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