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 Posted:   Sep 11, 2007 - 1:12 AM   
 By:   JSWalsh   (Member)

I have been having a rotten time writing a novel I've been thinking about for ages until John Crowley explained a technique I've been resisting--writing scenes and then tying it all together.

It's been working in this case. There were a handful of images and ideas but I had no idea which of several possible beginnings I should choose.

So...I skipped that part and have been writing the "meaty" scenes. Which of course gives me ideas for the connective tissue scenes.

I also noticed several new writing books in the store today. I've had a lousy couple of weeks so I deserve a treat.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2007 - 2:31 PM   
 By:   Gordon Reeves   (Member)



Sol LeWitt

“You seem the same as always and, being you, hate every minute of it. Don’t! Learn to say ‘F___ you’ to the world once in awhile. You have every right to. Just stop thinking, worrying, looking over our shoulder, wondering, doubting, fearing, hurting, hoping for some easy way out, struggling, gasping, confusing, itching, scratching, bumbling, grumbling, humbling, stumbling, rumbling, rambling, gambling, scrambling, hitching, bitching, moaning, groaning, honing, boning, hair-splitting, nit-picking, nose-stroking, ass-gouging, eyeball-poking, finger-pointing, alleyway-sneaking, long-waiting, small-stepping, evil-eyeing, back-scratching, searching, perching, besmirching, grinding grinding grinding away at yourself.

Stop it and just do.

… Don’t worry about cool, MAKE YOUR OWN UNCOOL. Make your own, your own world.”

to Eva Hesse



 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2007 - 9:25 PM   
 By:   Jon A. Bell   (Member)

I have been having a rotten time writing a novel I've been thinking about for ages until John Crowley explained a technique I've been resisting--writing scenes and then tying it all together.

If you've never read John Gardner's books The Art of Fiction and The Art of the Novel, run, do not walk, to get those books and read them NOW.

The Art of Fiction is, hands-down, the best book on writing fiction I've ever read.

-- Jon

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2007 - 9:48 PM   
 By:   franz_conrad   (Member)

I write screenplays. At the moment, they've all been short films (and I've directed three of them), but a couple of plots are building up for longer projects down the track.

The big trick with writing is finding the time for it. I find it conflicts a lot with other work I do - editing, for example, which is also a 'one man alone in a room' kind of creative endeavor.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2007 - 10:34 PM   
 By:   JSWalsh   (Member)

The very best writing book I've read of late is CHAPTER BY CHAPTER. The writer has a great chapter in which she addresses the "I don't have the time" idea--she puts it so much better than I could, so I'll let you check out the book yourself or I'll paraphrase it here someday.

I am one from the "Just do it" school myself and I believe that the golden rule of writing is "Sit down and write." If you can't concentrate on your current project, just write whatever comes to mind and FORCE yourself to write for X minutes. One of my students gave up easily on her writing until I forced her to keep working on the same piece. Not only did she write something funny and interesting, this incident has been a milestone for her--whenever she's having a rough day (I work in a residence for at-risk kids with behavioral and emotional issues), the rest of the staff and I refer to "the time you didn't think you could work on that writing exercise and you came up with that crazy story about space squirrels."

Gene Wolfe has a great solution for blocks--you can work on anything--gardening, doing the laundry--BUT you have NO access to any kind of art or storytelling--no reading, no movies, TV, music, etc.

This method works.

I have the Gardner books mentioned above as well as a real treat I discovered accidentally, ON WRITERS AND WRITING.

But I find CHAPTER BY CHAPTER to be kind of a life-saver.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2007 - 11:59 PM   
 By:   Oblicno   (Member)

I may have to buy it, i've written rock-all in nearly two months.

 
 Posted:   Sep 12, 2007 - 1:14 PM   
 By:   Max Bellochio   (Member)

I have just two words for you:

ALAN FIVEHOUSE.

But seriously. For me, writing is all about telling a story, effectively. I think we all have had experiences where we've either read a very weak story - effectively written - and a really exceptional story, which was told quite underwhelmingly.

Case in point, the latter experience is one that I've had recently. A family member wrote a very good story with highly mediocre results. The book was published and I give him a great deal of credit for actually following through and completing it. However, the prose was uncompelling and written on an eighth-grade level. I noticed that he skimped on providing appropriate details and the pacing (tension) was uneven. Invaraiably, it is the skill and craftsmanship of the writer that has to do with taking a good story and making it exceptional. This is, at least, one lesson that I tool away from the whole experience.

However, I agree. It's tough. I'm trying to write a massive project right now (Other than ALAN FIVEHOUSE) which can be extremely frustrating at times. I know where my beginning and ending is. I also know where many of my plot points are. But man, when you get stuck, it's a nightmare. This is when I put the thing down and begin to read something else. Or I go out to a mall or a restaurant, looking to hear a story from someone. Any story. Or perhaps I turn on the television and listen to the news. These are all excercises that get me to pop ideas into my head. And once I hear something obscure or just off-kilter, then I know I have it and go back to writing.

It's a truly cathartic experience.

MaxB

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 15, 2007 - 4:31 AM   
 By:   JSWalsh   (Member)

I may have to buy it, i've written rock-all in nearly two months.

Another decent writing book--though a bit pricey, considering the length, though it has a DVD too--is called WRITE IS A VERB by Bill O'Hanlon.

Its brevity is one of its assets. His attitude is similar to mine: "Shut up and just sit down and start writing!"

Some folks (no one here, I don't think) seem to be afraid to start writing until they know where they're going. Where's the fun in that? I like to follow where my characters may go, and the way to do this is to have them go ANYWHERE, do ANYTHING you think of--if it's wrong, you'll know, but if it's just DIFFERENT, stick with it.

Some writers have a way they wish to write, but it's not how they really do write. Someone might sit down to write Tom Wolfe and end up being more like Tom Clancy. Though of course you will have to write your own way, you'll only find that way by writing, preferably daily.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 15, 2007 - 6:31 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Some folks (no one here, I don't think) seem to be afraid to start writing until they know where they're going. Where's the fun in that? I like to follow where my characters may go, and the way to do this is to have them go ANYWHERE, do ANYTHING you think of--if it's wrong, you'll know, but if it's just DIFFERENT, stick with it.

I basically agree with you. I write that way myself, i.e. I start something without really knowing where I'm gonna end up. But I do NOT label this approach 'stream-of-consciousness'. I generally can't stand that approach. I HATE Virginia Woolfe, for example, and can BARELY stand James Joyce. I spend a lot of time describing the scenario/setting to the tiniest detail, and then - suddenly - begin the action. And then it moves quite fast and may go anywhere. But never into the abstract rambling that is stream-of-consciousness.

 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2008 - 6:20 AM   
 By:   scorechaser   (Member)

I am in the planning stages of my first novel, so I will put my screenplay work back for some time. The novel will be called "Winter Days", and I won´t say anything more. wink

I think, I will use the new year to outline and write it, and if anyone is interested, I am glad to send a copy, once it is finnished.

Philipp

 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2008 - 9:19 AM   
 By:   SheriffJoe   (Member)

I am working on three different types of writing as I type this. I am working on my novel, A DARKNESS BLACKER THAN NIGHT, a screenplay called TEARS FOR A TOUGH GUY and some gaming work.

I find that working in various genres simultaneously keeps my writing fresh and also keeps my mind actively amused, for want of a better phrase.

FOr me, the key in ALL writing is the outline. As you mentioned, Mr. Walsh, focus is sometimes an issue...NOT while writing, mind you, but the in between times when the inner critic is screaming "THIS SUCKS!" or "SHOULDN'T YOU BE DOING SOMETHING ELSE...LIKE...ANYTHING ELSE?" By tricking my brain that I've given up on one project and moving to another, I am able to quiet the inner critic for a short period...stimulate the creative juices, so to speak, keep the motivation level high.

It also helps that Darkness, Tears and the gaming work are in three different genres (one is a supernatural detective mystery, one a film noir and the other horror.

As to your thoughts on forcing yourself to write...I find that I do, at times, have to actually force myself to sit and get started. The joy of writing, though, is that once I do get rolling, it almost takes an act of God to get me to stop...which wrecks havoc with my personal life. smile

 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2008 - 9:29 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

I'd love to start writing. Problem is, I never do. For years-- make that decades-- I've filled several spiral notebooks with plot summaries, characters and whatnot, and I still do, but have never had the confidence/ability/discipline to actually write a story or a screenplay. So my hat's off to all of you who do.

 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2008 - 9:47 AM   
 By:   SheriffJoe   (Member)

Zelig, you would be surprised at how much confidence you build upon completing your first screenplay or novel. Yes, it probably needs a lot of work, but you can bitchslap that inner critic by saying that you actually completed something...it is one less thing he can needle you about. I am grateful to Syd Field's book on screenplay writing, because they provide a very detail blueprint on starting and finishing a script. I followed his examples religiously and it allowed me to complete my first script. From there, I began to adapt my writing to my own style...knowing I could finish it. Fifteen screenplays later, I am still writing and will begin developing my next feature-length script with an eye to producing it. It's all very exciting, and that excitement can, in itself, spur you on.

Good luck and keep writing!

Joe

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2008 - 10:00 AM   
 By:   Odlicno   (Member)

I'd love to start writing. Problem is, I never do. For years-- make that decades-- I've filled several spiral notebooks with plot summaries, characters and whatnot, and I still do, but have never had the confidence/ability/discipline to actually write a story or a screenplay. So my hat's off to all of you who do.

God, i know this feeling. Except i have actually finished some scripts i set out to write, like half-hour comedy scripts and a few short stories. But i lose things all the time, and i haven't written anything in at least 6 months. For some reason i got to canada and i stopped reading and writing. Odd.

 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2008 - 10:42 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Thanks for the advice, Sheriff. I'd like to try and do a fanfic of one of my favorite shows so some of the characterization is already done for me, so to speak, and see if I can make that work.

 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2008 - 11:26 AM   
 By:   scorechaser   (Member)

Just do it, man! I know how herrassing a simple white and clean piece of paper can be!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 11, 2008 - 10:23 PM   
 By:   JSWalsh   (Member)

Sherriff, great points. And good luck with your projects.

I think two things that ruin the pleasure of writing is the expectations we have. Thor, I believe, mentioned setting the scene, and that works for some.

But for those here with problems, I'd suggest something else.

One of the reasons we get stuck is because we don't want to fail. We don't want to write something that sucks.

Think of your ten favorite books or stories or movie screenplays. You love the final, finished version of those great works. If you didn't get those, but were presented with the first, stumbling drafts instead, you'd have said, "What's all this crap?"

Some folks don't seem to realize that the greatness of a work comes in the writing act. A handy example of this is the book CUJO ****MAJOR SPOILER***** by Stephen King. All along while he was writing it (he says, though sometimes he claims he can't recall writing it...oh well), he thought the boy would live. When he got to the end, though, the kid just wouldn't come around. No matter how hard he tried to get him to live, it just didn't work. *****END SPOILER*****

There are countless examples of this. People want to ensure success. They're afraid of screwing up. But you're never going to create ANYTHING that pulses with life unless you jump in and swim in that creative river.

So here's what I think is a helpful way of getting things written:

You have a hero, an idea, whatever. Now, either write in screenplay form, or just start with quick notes about setting, etc. and just get to the good stuff. I don't mean outline. Let's say you have this idea for, oh, Star Wars. Instead of working it all out, just jump in: "Luke Skywalker hurried to complete his chores so he could get into town with his friends..." blah blah blah. You may put in a new opening, add a couple of robots and a villain, whatever...but get what makes you want to write this book down on paper.

I can't tell you how many "great" ideas I had that dropped dead because I waited until they were "perfect". They'll never be perfect.

So just put down the parts you're aching to write. No one's going to see it but you, and you can add to it till it's good. Write what Annie Lamott calls a "shitty first draft" and KNOW it's going to be awful--that's the point.

Once you get something down, you can rewrite it into being good. Writing is mostly rewriting, and you can't rewrite something until you WRITE it down first.

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2008 - 3:10 AM   
 By:   scorechaser   (Member)

YES! Hey, JS, I have overcome writer´s block, and I am currently writing a new screnplay. I am writing the treatment as of now, and it will be an apocalyptic thriller. But very intimate and chamber like. But I won´t say anymore.

Man, am I glad. I missed writing so much!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2008 - 3:26 AM   
 By:   JSWalsh   (Member)

I know EXACTLY how you feel. Today I had my best day since breaking through my block aka My Year of Laziness and Sex (there's always something that's keeping you away from the writing and for me...) and I thought what I think EVERY time I spend hours on my writing--"Why don't you do this all the time?"

It's hard to get started on writing if you're not in love with the piece you're working on. If you ARE in love with it, you wake up or begin a writing session thinking "Oh boy, I get to go back there again today!" and you feel blessed just being able to write. How great is that?

 
 Posted:   Jan 18, 2008 - 3:54 AM   
 By:   scorechaser   (Member)

Good luck to you with that!

Have you read "The Road" by Cormack McCarthy? One of THE best books I have ever read! I hope they get the film version right!

 
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