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Posted: |
Sep 12, 2021 - 12:52 PM
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By: |
Jeyl
(Member)
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If there's anything that I found problematic with William Shatner with regards to Star Trek, it was definitely NOT that SNL skit. For me, it was his mean-spirited ego dictating elements of Star Trek.
Just watching Star Trek V is enough evidence to show how real the feud between him and George Takei really was. In a film written and directed by Shatner, Sulu starts the movie lost, fibs about his situation, crashes a shuttle, commits mutiny on Kirk and gets blasted in the face by boot rockets on Kirk's insistence. Nimoy may always be Spock, but I will always pick him as a film's director over Shatner.
Heck, even Futurama spoofed their differences.
Nimoy: When I directed Star Trek IV, I got a magnificent performance out of Bill because I respected him so much.
Shatner: And when I directed Star Trek V, I got a magnificent performance out of me because I respected me so much!
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Posted: |
Sep 13, 2021 - 7:18 AM
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By: |
Octoberman
(Member)
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They were comparing Nimoy and Shatner directing styles. The budget for TWOK automatically eliminated any chance of getting Goldsmith back. Shatner had a much smaller budget for special effects thus why they went with a "smaller" company. Or at the very least Paramount insisted going with the lowest bid for the effects. I believe they were also rushed too.
I know all that--I was making a joke, Brother Sol. 
But one thing that occurs to me is that Shatner, even with all his personal influence, was not able to stand up to the suits anywhere near as well as Meyer.
Meyer writes in detail about his problems with confrontation, and yet, he was still able to "win" (for want of a better word) some fights with the money guys--particularly because he armed himself with facts and figures.
You know, in some bizarre way I'm almost glad Shatner didn't have an unlimited effects budget.
Sometimes the FX we are seeing onscreen gets in the way of telling a good story--if the story is a good one.
I'm not saying that was necessarily the situation here, but, "Wow, Kirk squaring off against God--OH LOOK! Rock Men!!"
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Posted: |
Sep 13, 2021 - 7:23 AM
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By: |
Solium
(Member)
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They were comparing Nimoy and Shatner directing styles. The budget for TWOK automatically eliminated any chance of getting Goldsmith back. Shatner had a much smaller budget for special effects thus why they went with a "smaller" company. Or at the very least Paramount insisted going with the lowest bid for the effects. I believe they were also rushed too.
I know all that--I was making a joke, Brother Sol.
But one thing that occurs to me is that Shatner, even with all his personal influence, was not able to stand up to the suits anywhere near as well as Meyer.
Meyer writes in detail about his problems with confrontation, and yet, he was still able to "win" (for want of a better word) some fights with the money guys--particularly because he armed himself with facts and figures.
You know, in some bizarre way I'm almost glad Shatner didn't have an unlimited effects budget.
Sometimes the FX we are seeing onscreen gets in the way of telling a good story--if the story is a good one.
I'm not saying that was necessarily the situation here, but, "Wow, Kirk squaring off against God--OH LOOK! Rock Men!!"
"Canadian humor. Its a difficult concept."
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Posted: |
Sep 13, 2021 - 7:27 AM
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By: |
Jeyl
(Member)
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And I bet Shatner would have known how to frame that “boot sticking on locker” shot without the sticky stuff being so damn obvious, the way Meier shot it.
It's Meyer, and do you know what a Cinematographer is? I know Shatner is credited as both a writer and director on Star Trek V, but he is most certainly not credited as the film's cinematographer. That honor goes to Andrew Laszlo. And as generally described, a cinematographer is responsible for the development, look and feel of the images which make up the final film. To say that "Shatner would have know how to frame a shot" is such a laughable notion when you consider he was making a film about a man seeking out god, in a comedy that's also science fiction.
And as much as I don't want to dismiss the arguments you've made about how STV looks better than the previous films, in the end, that didn't save it. Star Trek V was a critical and financial bomb and had it not been for the franchise's 25th Anniversary coming up soon after, it likely would have been the last outing of the TOS crew and the end of the film franchise. And if there is one thing I'm very thankful for is that the cast of the original series didn't end on a note where they were all incompetent backstabbing idiots.
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Posted: |
Sep 13, 2021 - 9:30 AM
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By: |
Jeyl
(Member)
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21 Star Trek V: The Final Frontier= Financial BOMB
27 The Little Mermaid= Financial HIT
Does not compute!
Alright. Let's take a look at how much each film made worldwide after their initial runs.
Star Trek V: $70,200,000
The Little Mermaid: $222,299,758
Well, I'm sure 70 million is the expected world wide gross of a Star Trek film in general, right?
Star Trek IV: $133,000,000
Ok. If the audience didn't like it, maybe the critics did? And since everyone is doing it, let's rotten tomatoe this up!
Star Trek IV: 82%
Star Trek V: 22%
Star Trek VI: 82%
Hey, Fathom Events! We're coming up on Star Trek V's 30th Anniversary! Want to re-release the film into theaters?
*Fathom releases Star Trek: The Motion Picture instead*
Hmm. Alright! We're coming up on Star Trek's 55th Anniversary! That's 5 and another 5 right there in the title. Let's give the big old 5 some love!
*Fathom releases Star Trek IV*
Ok. Paramount, Shatner has talked about doing a Director's Cut all the way back since the initial 2-Disc set release of Star Trek V. He even did an on-camera interview where he praised Paramount for allowing Robert Wise the chance to do a Director's Edition for Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Maybe....
*Paramount is doing a 4K Director's Edition of Star Trek: The Motion Picture*
Is this computing now?
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Posted: |
Sep 13, 2021 - 10:57 AM
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By: |
Solium
(Member)
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21 Star Trek V: The Final Frontier= Financial BOMB
27 The Little Mermaid= Financial HIT
Does not compute!
Alright. Let's take a look at how much each film made worldwide after their initial runs.
Star Trek V: $70,200,000
The Little Mermaid: $222,299,758
Well, I'm sure 70 million is the expected world wide gross of a Star Trek film in general, right?
Star Trek IV: $133,000,000
Ok. If the audience didn't like it, maybe the critics did? And since everyone is doing it, let's rotten tomatoe this up!
Star Trek IV: 82%
Star Trek V: 22%
Star Trek VI: 82%
Hey, Fathom Events! We're coming up on Star Trek V's 30th Anniversary! Want to re-release the film into theaters?
*Fathom releases Star Trek: The Motion Picture instead*
Hmm. Alright! We're coming up on Star Trek's 55th Anniversary! That's 5 and another 5 right there in the title. Let's give the big old 5 some love!
*Fathom releases Star Trek IV*
Ok. Paramount, Shatner has talked about doing a Director's Cut all the way back since the initial 2-Disc set release of Star Trek V. He even did an on-camera interview where he praised Paramount for allowing Robert Wise the chance to do a Director's Edition for Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Maybe....
*Paramount is doing a 4K Director's Edition of Star Trek: The Motion Picture*
Is this computing now?
I was just shocked The Little Mermaid made less than Star Trek V (Domestically) and was so far down the list. I just assumed TLM was in the top ten highest grossing films of the year.
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Posted: |
Sep 13, 2021 - 11:21 AM
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By: |
Jeyl
(Member)
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I found this nice piece in Hollywood Reporter, someone that dared to say it is not quite as terrible as the reputation.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/star-trek-v-killed-franchise-30-years-1216680/
While I certainly will never make the point that liking Star Trek V is wrong or that saying certain aspects of it are quite excellent (Even I LOVE the score). But when viewers usually bring up the relationship between Kirk, Spock and McCoy as a highlight, part of me feels like that just emphasizes the overall that Star Trek simply could not overcome (And would in fact spell doom for the film franchise with Star Trek Nemesis).
I understand that when you're making a movie that's an ensamble, there is still the need to focus on the main characters. I get it. Even Star Trek II, the one film where all other Star Trek films are compared, still does a lot of disservices to anyone who isn't part of the trio. Sulu is just manning a console, Spock once again fixes the warp drive where Scotty could not, Chekov screams again and no one ever responds to Uhura's calls.
But where those disservices can all stem from the lack of moments the story could allow for them, Star Trek V goes the extra mile by actually bringing these characters down. Sulu, Chekov and Uhura all willingly turn on Kirk. Even though McCoy and Spock were charmed, they still refuse to follow Sybok unlike everyone else. And the only character who flat out resists Sybok's pain relieving charms... is Kirk. The only reason Scotty gets a pass is because he never got charmed, though I suppose 'walking' into things and getting knocked out isn't a high for his character either.
That's why despite the chemistry and good acting from Shatner, Nimoy and Kelly, I did not like the Trio aspect of this film because Shatner believed that was all that was necessary and everyone else should be the butt of the jokes. Not because they were funny, but because there make the trio look better by comparison.
I wish I could say Star Trek learned it's lesson from this, but Star Trek: Nemesis proved they could do it way worse.
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