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 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 2:10 AM   
 By:   No Respectable Gentleman   (Member)

I dislike ANGIE too but Desplat won an Oscar for a similar score (THE SHAPE OF WATER).

For the record, I'd say MR. BASEBALL is his worst score.

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 2:14 AM   
 By:   No Respectable Gentleman   (Member)

P.S.

I don't despise the DO NOT FOLD sample. Sounds like Goldsmith was trying to replicate the Lalo Schifrin sound that was fashionable at the time.

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 2:35 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

I dislike ANGIE too but Desplat won an Oscar for a similar score (THE SHAPE OF WATER).

For the record, I'd say MR. BASEBALL is his worst score.


Shape of Water was a much better score than Angie though. Speaking of Mr. Baseball, I remember Gene Siskel saying about Mr. Baseball that the one thing about the movie he really enjoyed was the musical score by Jerry Goldsmith.

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 2:38 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

Just based on the YouTube clip here, DO NOT FOLD, SPINDLE, OR MUTILATE is way, way more interesting than Angie. At least there is something going on in the music.

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 5:43 AM   
 By:   W. David Lichty [Lorien]   (Member)

I'd never heard of it before, but I'm with Watt above on it.
I'd like to hear a clean recording it of. Seems like a fun listen.


I think a clean recording will work wonders on this one.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 5:55 AM   
 By:   moolik   (Member)

This is the Goldsmith I dig...
ARCHER...ESCAPE FROM THE PLANET OF APES...BARNABY ...SEBASTIAN...SHAMUS....UNCLE etc.
Whats not to like here?
Man...taste sucks wink

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 8:56 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Haha somehow I love all of those scores and not this one! smile

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 9:09 AM   
 By:   judy the hutt   (Member)

surprised that there are negative comments about Jerry Goldsmith's music. thought his was sacrosanct

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 9:49 AM   
 By:   Jeff Bond   (Member)

The strangled trumpet performance for the killer is brilliant--Goldsmith often used solo trumpet as a marker of masculinity, and this is an ingeniously warped take on that for a character who's constantly narrating his masculine aggravation at being manipulated by a woman he's never met (from a computer dating service, an idea which is also amusingly quantified by the beeping main title music).
Really the only score mentioned on this thread that I don't like is Angie, and I'll have to revisit that to see what it actually does--I just remember not finding anything interesting in the original album and it seeming too conventional. 20 or 30 years ago I would have run screaming from a lot of Goldsmith's odder scores but now the odder the better--I think the theme to SPYS is kind of brilliant in its sheer, obstinate stupidity. Goldsmith would go out on a limb in a way other composers never would.

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 10:45 AM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

The strangled trumpet performance for the killer is brilliant--Goldsmith often used solo trumpet as a marker of masculinity, and this is an ingeniously warped take on that for a character who's constantly narrating his masculine aggravation at being manipulated by a woman he's never met (from a computer dating service, an idea which is also amusingly quantified by the beeping main title music).
Really the only score mentioned on this thread that I don't like is Angie, and I'll have to revisit that to see what it actually does--I just remember not finding anything interesting in the original album and it seeming too conventional. 20 or 30 years ago I would have run screaming from a lot of Goldsmith's odder scores but now the odder the better--I think the theme to SPYS is kind of brilliant in its sheer, obstinate stupidity. Goldsmith would go out on a limb in a way other composers never would.


Describing the theme to SPYS as "brilliant in its sheer, obstinate stupidity" has provided me the best chuckle of the day so far! smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 10:51 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

Aye, putting the word brilliant in any sentence relating to S*P*Y*S is chuckle worthy wink

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 11:14 AM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

surprised that there are negative comments about Jerry Goldsmith's music. thought his was sacrosanct

Considering how even he could not completely rescue films from their inherent cringeworthy badness, little wonder that they may have made the music sound better than it was. Or NOT.

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 12:42 PM   
 By:   Scott Bettencourt   (Member)

surprised that there are negative comments about Jerry Goldsmith's music. thought his was sacrosanct

As I've said, Goldsmith is probably my favorite creator in any medium, but as far as I'm concerned no artist's work is sacrosanct. (great word, though). I don't know that Bernard Herrmann or Miklos Rozsa ever wrote a bad score, but their scores for Larry Cohen (It's Alive and The Private Files of J. Edgar Hoover) are probably as close as there is it "generic Herrmann" and "generic Rozsa."

Still, one of the many things I revere about Goldsmith was his willingness to go out on a limb creatively, and he certainly did with S*P*Y*S.

Has anyone watched the film with the John Scott score? Was the music so overtly comedic, or did it try to play it serious to counterpoint the (failed) comedy of the film?

(Irwin Kershner [at first I typed "Irwin Winkler"] was certainly erratic as a commercial director. Arguably the best Star Wars film ever, a really good Man Called Horse sequel, and pretty dreadful 007 and RoboCop films).

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 12:52 PM   
 By:   riotengine   (Member)

There is only one Jerry Goldsmith score I don't really like, where I can't really get it. I've listened to it exactly once in my life and that's it. So far, I cannot even muster the courage to give it at least a second chance. That score is ANGIE. Of all the Jerry Goldsmith scores I know, that is the one I really, really cringe about. Maybe it's good in the movie, maybe I'm even wrong about it and it's good on its own, but I disliked it so much that one time I heard it, I find it hard to get myself to listen to it again. All his other scores I enjoy greatly.

Really? My wife and I like that one. I'd give it another go. smile

It's nowhere near as bad as S*P*Y*S.

Greg Espinoza

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 12:52 PM   
 By:   judy the hutt   (Member)

surprised that there are negative comments about Jerry Goldsmith's music. thought his was sacrosanct

As I've said, Goldsmith is probably my favorite creator in any medium, but as far as I'm concerned no artist's work is sacrosanct. (great word, though). I don't know that Bernard Herrmann or Miklos Rozsa ever wrote a bad score, but their scores for Larry Cohen (It's Alive and The Private Files of J. Edgar Hoover) are probably as close as there is it "generic Herrmann" and "generic Rozsa."

Still, one of the many things I revere about Goldsmith was his willingness to go out on a limb creatively, and he certainly did with S*P*Y*S.

Has anyone watched the film with the John Scott score? Was the music so overtly comedic, or did it try to play it serious to counterpoint the (failed) comedy of the film?

(Irwin Kershner [at first I typed "Irwin Winkler"] was certainly erratic as a commercial director. Arguably the best Star Wars film ever, a really good Man Called Horse sequel, and pretty dreadful 007 and RoboCop films).


I hold great respect for a lot of them because they give me such great pleasure listening to their music.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 12:54 PM   
 By:   riotengine   (Member)

surprised that there are negative comments about Jerry Goldsmith's music. thought his was sacrosanct

As I've said, Goldsmith is probably my favorite creator in any medium, but as far as I'm concerned no artist's work is sacrosanct. (great word, though). I don't know that Bernard Herrmann or Miklos Rozsa ever wrote a bad score, but their scores for Larry Cohen (It's Alive and The Private Files of J. Edgar Hoover) are probably as close as there is it "generic Herrmann" and "generic Rozsa."

Still, one of the many things I revere about Goldsmith was his willingness to go out on a limb creatively, and he certainly did with S*P*Y*S.


I'm pretty hardcore when it comes to Jerry, but yeah, S*P*Y*S is a hard listen, even for me.

Greg Espinoza

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 2:16 PM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

I haven't played ANGIE in a long time, but I remember feeling it was more like Delerue than Goldsmith.
Quite whimsical and French sounding, in that typical Delerue style.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 2:32 PM   
 By:   riotengine   (Member)

I haven't played ANGIE in a long time, but I remember feeling it was more like Delerue than Goldsmith.
Quite whimsical and French sounding, in that typical Delerue style.


Yes. It's a very pleasant score.

Greg Espinoza

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 2:59 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

surprised that there are negative comments about Jerry Goldsmith's music. thought his was sacrosanct

Hey, I gotta dislike *something* he wrote or people will continue thinking I'm a blind follower! wink

The strangled trumpet performance for the killer is brilliant--Goldsmith often used solo trumpet as a marker of masculinity, and this is an ingeniously warped take on that for a character who's constantly narrating his masculine aggravation at being manipulated by a woman he's never met (from a computer dating service, an idea which is also amusingly quantified by the beeping main title music).

Yeah, the latter I find obnoxious and too on-the-nose. (And it doesn't even really sound like a computer beep of the time, does it?)
But agree with you about the "strangled trumpet" being a good idea, for the reasons you expressed (very well put I might add); for me it is the *one* good idea in the score. And it works it context. But musically I just can't enjoy it and it seems to make up like 90% of the score. I also very much miss a primary draw of Goldsmith's work for me: thematic development. This score has very very little. (Unless you can point out some that I missed?)

Really the only score mentioned on this thread that I don't like is Angie, and I'll have to revisit that to see what it actually does--I just remember not finding anything interesting in the original album and it seeming too conventional.

I'll bet if you see the film you'll come around...as I've been told I will, with I.Q., once I understand the context of what Jerry wrote by seeing the movie.

20 or 30 years ago I would have run screaming from a lot of Goldsmith's odder scores but now the odder the better--I think the theme to SPYS is kind of brilliant in its sheer, obstinate stupidity. Goldsmith would go out on a limb in a way other composers never would.

I generally agree with you on "the odder the better". smile I'm glad to hear you're a fellow fan of S*P*Y*S. For me that's *not* a "one good idea" score, but one just *bursting* with ideas (everything-AND-the kitchen sink) and creativity. The Main Title is silly as hell, but my single favorite cue from the score is "Anybody Got a Key?" which creatively and deftly juggles quotes from pre-existing music, multiple unusual elements (the vocals, the synths, etc.) all into one absolutely delightful and dare I say exhilarating cue... I'm not sure he'd quite reach that level of creative zany abandon again until his final film score, for Looney Tunes: Back in Action (even if he got close with some previous scores).

Aye, putting the word brilliant in any sentence relating to S*P*Y*S is chuckle worthy wink

But...why? "Brilliant zaniness" is exactly how I'd describe my favorite cue in particular.

Still, one of the many things I revere about Goldsmith was his willingness to go out on a limb creatively, and he certainly did with S*P*Y*S.

THIS! Thank you, sir! It's a score just BURSTING with energy and ideas...even if sometimes they are annoying ones!

It's nowhere near as bad as S*P*Y*S.

The degree of S*P*Y*S hate makes me sad. frown I'm sure that's a large part of why an expanded standalone edition of the score has never been released.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Jun 30, 2020 - 3:25 PM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

I haven't played ANGIE in a long time, but I remember feeling it was more like Delerue than Goldsmith.
Quite whimsical and French sounding, in that typical Delerue style.


Yes. It's a very pleasant score.

Greg Espinoza


Interesting... I like lots of Delerue, but I found Angie just boring. Obnoxiously boring. I own the CD and literally was shocked on first listening how little I can connect to that music. I have only played it once and that's it. It's really the only Goldsmith score ever where that happened to me. But more power to those who enjoy it. I wish I could. Maybe I give it a second chance one day, but currently I fear I'd be shellshocked once again. smile

 
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