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 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 6:53 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

MICHEL LEGRAND I liked as much if not more in the 80's as the 60's.

 
 Posted:   Jul 29, 2013 - 4:08 AM   
 By:   OnlyGoodMusic   (Member)

Master Jerry Goldsmith surely got better with time.

Seriously? He didn't compose anything significant after the 1998 The Mummy, and his greatest period is between the late 1960s (Planet of the Apes, The Sand Pebbles, etc) and 1982 (Poltergeist, Night Crossing, etc), with a few occasional highlights thereafter (Legend, Star Trek V). His music got more and more streamlined in the 1990s.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 29, 2013 - 4:50 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

To me one of the most obvious examples is John Williams. I don't think he did anything remarkable before the The Reivers and Images. His TV music for Irwin Allen was fair but nowhere near as good as the stuff Goldsmith, Schifrin, Fried or Fred Steiner were doing for TV in the 60s...

I think the Lost in Space and Checkmate scores are among the best things in his career.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 29, 2013 - 7:56 AM   
 By:   vinylscrubber   (Member)

I agree with Robertmro. Tiomkin got his start in the late 30's but didn't arrive at his signature sound until around 1946 with ANGEL ON MY SHOULDER, coming into full flower in the fifties.

From my point of view, Alan Silvestri has shown remarkable evolution since ROMANCE OF THE STONE.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 29, 2013 - 8:08 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

"Better" is in the eye of the beholder, but there are certainly many composers who have DEVELOPPED their sound throughout their careers.

Elfman has been mentioned. His sound can be roughly divided into three -- the early part (where his Herrmann and Rota influence is prominent), from MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE onwards when he fell in love with counterpoint and complex soundscapes, then from SERENADA SCHIZOPHRANA where it's more lean again and more reliant on minimalism. I dig the first and third part, not so much the second (even though it has some good ones too).

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 29, 2013 - 8:29 AM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

To me one of the most obvious examples is John Williams. I don't think he did anything remarkable before the The Reivers and Images. His TV music for Irwin Allen was fair but nowhere near as good as the stuff Goldsmith, Schifrin, Fried or Fred Steiner were doing for TV in the 60s. None But The Brave is decent but not among the best film music of the 60s. Williams's disaster movie scores have their moments, but the real turning point in his career is Jaws - which he composed when he was well into his 40s.

That is an interesting line of demarcation. The first ten years up to THE REIVERS is his "early career" and the 45 years after is his "late career". I'm more along the line of giving his primetime up to '93 at SCHINDLER'S LIST/JURASSIC PARK point and the past 20 years being his "latter career".

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 29, 2013 - 9:21 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

To me one of the most obvious examples is John Williams. I don't think he did anything remarkable before the The Reivers and Images. His TV music for Irwin Allen was fair but nowhere near as good as the stuff Goldsmith, Schifrin, Fried or Fred Steiner were doing for TV in the 60s. None But The Brave is decent but not among the best film music of the 60s. Williams's disaster movie scores have their moments, but the real turning point in his career is Jaws - which he composed when he was well into his 40s.

That is an interesting line of demarcation. The first ten years up to THE REIVERS is his "early career" and the 45 years after is his "late career". I'm more along the line of giving his primetime up to '93 at SCHINDLER'S LIST/JURASSIC PARK point and the past 20 years being his "latter career".


Agreed.

There are some excellent, "serious" scores in his early career too. THE SECRET WAYS, for example, which is sadly unreleased.

 
 Posted:   Jul 29, 2013 - 9:40 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I agree about Alfred Newman overall, though I wouldn't say 1970's Airport was better than 1947's Captain from Castile...

I think he really came into his own during the 40s, whereas in the 30s he was composing good stuff but it was mostly in the Steiner/Korngold mold. In the 40s Newman got AWESOME and kept it awesome until he died. I don't think anyone would argue that his music was declining in quality during his last decade of output...just quantity (sadly).

And if I'm honest yes, Goldsmith did decline in *average* quality of output in the last 16 years or so of his career, but he had GREAT scores mixed in among the decent ones all the way up until the end, and he really went out with a BANG -- I don't understand anyone who doesn't think Looney Tunes: Back in Action was a fantastic score, full of energy and inventiveness. My second favorite Goldsmith/Dante score after The 'Burbs.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 29, 2013 - 5:32 PM   
 By:   Bill Finn   (Member)

I agree about Alfred Newman overall, though I wouldn't say 1970's Airport was better than 1947's Captain from Castile...

I think he really came into his own during the 40s, whereas in the 30s he was composing good stuff but it was mostly in the Steiner/Korngold mold. In the 40s Newman got AWESOME and kept it awesome until he died. I don't think anyone would argue that his music was declining in quality during his last decade of output...just quantity (sadly).

Yavar


Yavar,

Yes, I agree that AIRPORT was not better than CfC. CfC was of course, one of Newman's greatest scores. All I think is that AIRPORT showed a continuing movement of Newman's muse into the realm of Mancini and Williams. CfC was perfect for 1949, and AIRPORT was mostly perfect for 1970.

In other words, I could say that Newman didn't so much 'improve' as he was sensitive to what his film-makers wanted. If you go back to Newmqn's older score, it's kind of hard to imagine him even writing something like AIRPORT. I don't remember Steiner, Rozsa, or Tiomkin doing such. That is all I'm implying.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 29, 2013 - 5:32 PM   
 By:   Bill Finn   (Member)

double post.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 29, 2013 - 10:00 PM   
 By:   RM Eastman   (Member)

Master Jerry Goldsmith surely got better with time.

Too bad he was not called to score so many great movies as he was in the past...

I always thought he was great.

Although he was always great, Franz Waxman in the later part of his career wrote some tremendous music. THE NUN'S STORY, SPIRIT OF ST LOUIS, ADVENTURES OF A YOUNG MAN, SAYONARA, PEYTON PLACE, MY GEISHA,TARAS BULBA and so on.

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2013 - 8:46 AM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

And, of course, Max Steiner continued scoring up until near-death. And his scores were relevant and up-to-date, albeit romantic (that latter element had not died out before Steiner's passing).

Look at "A Summer Place" and "Rome Adventure".

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2013 - 9:10 AM   
 By:   Ludwig van   (Member)

To me one of the most obvious examples is John Williams. I don't think he did anything remarkable before the The Reivers and Images. His TV music for Irwin Allen was fair but nowhere near as good as the stuff Goldsmith, Schifrin, Fried or Fred Steiner were doing for TV in the 60s. None But The Brave is decent but not among the best film music of the 60s. Williams's disaster movie scores have their moments, but the real turning point in his career is Jaws - which he composed when he was well into his 40s.

That is an interesting line of demarcation. The first ten years up to THE REIVERS is his "early career" and the 45 years after is his "late career". I'm more along the line of giving his primetime up to '93 at SCHINDLER'S LIST/JURASSIC PARK point and the past 20 years being his "latter career".


This is surely my Beethoven bias coming out, but couldn't we view the first 10 years as an "early" period, then from JAWS to JURASSIC PARK as "middle" period where his style becomes more individual, and the past 20 years as a "late" period which has tended to pare away much of the symphonic grandeur of his sound?

In any case, I've always wondered why JAWS was such a sudden turning point in his style. Was it simply that he was working with Spielberg, who wanted that big symphonic sound in the classic Hollywood tradition? Certainly to some extent. But could he have written something like this before and just didn't have the opportunity, or did JAWS and Spielberg prompt him to rise to the challenge?

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2013 - 10:43 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Totally agree with you on Newman's adaptability, Bill. smile

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2013 - 11:07 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)


In any case, I've always wondered why JAWS was such a sudden turning point in his style. Was it simply that he was working with Spielberg, who wanted that big symphonic sound in the classic Hollywood tradition? Certainly to some extent. But could he have written something like this before and just didn't have the opportunity, or did JAWS and Spielberg prompt him to rise to the challenge?


I think Spielberg musically wanted "an adventure on the high seas" approach . Probably influenced by his studies of earlier classics such as Mutiny on the Bounty and Seahawk. JW just rose to the challenge.
Of course that lead Spielberg suggesting Williams for Star Wars and the rest is history.

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2013 - 11:20 AM   
 By:   scottthompson   (Member)

Master Jerry Goldsmith surely got better with time.

Too bad he was not called to score so many great movies as he was in the past...



Negative. Goldsmith's earlier work (prior to the mid 1980's) was much more original, thought-out, and challenging.
Same with John Barry.

I'd say I am much more fond of Ennio Morricone's more recent body of work, though he obviously had some some true classics in his early days.

SCOTT

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2013 - 11:22 AM   
 By:   scottthompson   (Member)

double post

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2013 - 11:32 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

In any case, I've always wondered why JAWS was such a sudden turning point in his style. Was it simply that he was working with Spielberg, who wanted that big symphonic sound in the classic Hollywood tradition? Certainly to some extent. But could he have written something like this before and just didn't have the opportunity, or did JAWS and Spielberg prompt him to rise to the challenge?

Well, Williams was surely doing 'big Hollywood sounds' many years before JAWS too. However, I don't really consider JAWS a 'big Hollywood sound'. It's more lean and progressive and modern, with some exceptions.

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2013 - 12:09 PM   
 By:   scottthompson   (Member)

In any case, I've always wondered why JAWS was such a sudden turning point in his style. Was it simply that he was working with Spielberg, who wanted that big symphonic sound in the classic Hollywood tradition? Certainly to some extent. But could he have written something like this before and just didn't have the opportunity, or did JAWS and Spielberg prompt him to rise to the challenge?

Well, Williams was surely doing 'big Hollywood sounds' many years before JAWS too. However, I don't really consider JAWS a 'big Hollywood sound'. It's more lean and progressive and modern, with some exceptions.



Quite so. His first true epic was STAR WARS. Prior to that, his sound was complex but measured. I really enjoy the early 70's pre Lucas music he composed, particularly the dramas (JANE EYRE, HEIDI) and the Americana (THE REIVERS, THE COWBOYS). Even epics like THE TOWERING INFERNO and THE POSEIDON ADVENTURE were "un-Hollywood" sounding to me. He certainly returned to this formula with strokes of genius like DRACULA, CLOSE ENCOUNTERS and THE FURY!

SCOTT

 
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