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 Posted:   Jan 9, 2012 - 8:16 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

Or maybe we are all in the stars and some of us are looking down in the gutter.i guess it all depends are you more an optimist or a pessimist?

 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 10:59 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Likewise, sci-fi shows portray "otherness" - something beyond the mediocrity and everyday horrors of real life. I think that sci-fi fans (TV or otherwise) are basically an unhappy lot looking for a bit of relief. big grin Either that or they're supreme optimists who think things can get better with technology. After all, even when sci-fi aliens invade Earth, they do so with fabulous technology. THAT is a very optimistic view of technology.


There's plenty of dystopian sci-fi out there, so it's not all happy and peppy and bursting with love.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 10, 2012 - 6:59 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

To Jim Phelps- You mean it is not all happy and peppy and bursting with love, i find that sad being a man who have written SCFI screenplays like UTOPIA ELITE, GREATEST LOVE STORY OF ALL, etc etc, oh well, i learn something new everyday, don't we all.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2012 - 11:48 PM   
 By:   JSWalsh   (Member)

Jim Phelps,

The shows that have the most rabid fans have a sense of sadness about them, of nostalgia for a place the viewers are recalling even as they're watching them for the first time. It's about the reverberations of optimism and adventure that the viewers are feeling, reminding them of when they were kids and watched sci fi and dreamed of their future lives--not necessarily of what's in the show, but what the people and excitement of the shows--living a life about honor and ideas and courage and fighting for what's good and exploring the unknown and being recognized as a pioneer, doing work that is outrageous and unique. These shows are like hallucinations of childhood, warped versions of unrealistic dreams that we knew couldn't be but part of us really DID think they could be only because how could something we love and want that much NOT somehow come into existence?

And all the babes wear boots and have long hair and are instantly available to you based on your ability to pull the trigger on a ray gun quickly, which only someone who's never been in a gym because he spent all that time working on his video game trigger finger could do.

 
 Posted:   Apr 29, 2012 - 5:02 AM   
 By:   Heath   (Member)



From TREKKIES (1997). I'll bet some of you here stop just short of this guy. Love the defensive body language of the store clerk. LOL


By strange coincidence, I'm building a replica William Shatner. It does everything the real William Shatner does except eat. My budget doesn't run to that.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 29, 2012 - 11:36 AM   
 By:   Rollin Hand   (Member)

Do you remember the warning message of the air pirate David 14 in ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK?
"Tell this to the workers when they ask where your leader went. We, the soldiers
of The National Liberation Front of America, in the name of the workers and all
the oppressed of this imperialist country, have struck a fatal blow to the
racist police state. What better revolutionary example than to let their
president perish in the inhuman dungeon of his own imperialist prison."

 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2017 - 9:44 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Jim Phelps,

The shows that have the most rabid fans have a sense of sadness about them, of nostalgia for a place the viewers are recalling even as they're watching them for the first time. It's about the reverberations of optimism and adventure that the viewers are feeling, reminding them of when they were kids and watched sci fi and dreamed of their future lives--not necessarily of what's in the show, but what the people and excitement of the shows--living a life about honor and ideas and courage and fighting for what's good and exploring the unknown and being recognized as a pioneer, doing work that is outrageous and unique. These shows are like hallucinations of childhood, warped versions of unrealistic dreams that we knew couldn't be but part of us really DID think they could be only because how could something we love and want that much NOT somehow come into existence?

And all the babes wear boots and have long hair and are instantly available to you based on your ability to pull the trigger on a ray gun quickly, which only someone who's never been in a gym because he spent all that time working on his video game trigger finger could do.


I missed this post when JSWalsh wrote it nearly six years ago. My response would be "Nostalgia is a form of depression"; something my ever-aging and senile self has posted on this forum over the years.

Does anyone agree or disagree with what Walsh wrote?

 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2017 - 9:50 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

I think I draw the line at building a blinking light life-support chair and driving it around outside where people can see it.

 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2017 - 10:14 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Up until the 2000's I would say Sci Fi and Fantasy were a niche market and they were far and few in-between. There's always a dozen crimes shows, hospital shows, court room drama shows on television at anyone time. So the few and neglected tend to band together.

Why people like Sci Fi and Fantasy I don't think is much of a mystery or even really that odd. Humans have been fascinated with other worldly things since the beginning of time, starting with Gods and Monsters, Fairy Tales, and now modern Science Fiction and Fantasy.

I would argues there's just as many "Friends" groupies or "NFL" groupies. Yet they're not considered "nerds" for their obsessions.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2017 - 10:46 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Why people like Sci Fi and Fantasy I don't think is much of a mystery or even really that odd. Humans have been fascinated with other worldly things since the beginning of time, starting with Gods and Monsters, Fairy Tales, and now modern Science Fiction and Fantasy.

You also need to ask WHY people have been fascinated by this, and WHY there seems to be a correlation between people who struggle with various social and personal aspects -- the "real world", so to speak -- and those who are interested in sci fi and fantasy.

I think in most cases, it's a substitute for something else.

 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2017 - 11:01 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Why people like Sci Fi and Fantasy I don't think is much of a mystery or even really that odd. Humans have been fascinated with other worldly things since the beginning of time, starting with Gods and Monsters, Fairy Tales, and now modern Science Fiction and Fantasy.

You also need to ask WHY people have been fascinated by this, and WHY there seems to be a correlation between people who struggle with various social and personal aspects -- the "real world", so to speak -- and those who are interested in sci fi and fantasy.

I think in most cases, it's a substitute for something else.


No, I don't think it's just a bunch of social rejects, which is a typically prejudice thing to say. I guess everyone that works at NASA are social rejects? Because just about every single one of them seem to love Star Trek and Star Wars. It inspired their direction in life. As I pointed out humans have always been fascinated with other worldly characters and stories. Out of the ordinary is stimulating and challenges the mind. Sci Fi/fantasy takes it to the ultimate level.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2017 - 11:16 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

No, I don't think it's just a bunch of social rejects, which is a typically prejudice thing to say.

No, not exclusively, but the ratio between the two groups is more than just coincidental. To quote myself from earlier in the thread:

"My theory is that science fiction operates in a "strata" far away from the bore and mundane quality of everyday life, and most niche fans (or geeks, if you will) are also dreamers. If the world is cruel to them or they don't really understand it, it's easy to dream onself into a world of wizards, spaceships and aliens.

So they channel all their social and creative energy into living, breathing and exploring these worlds."

 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2017 - 11:57 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Sci-fi fans ponder to themselves, "Why?" and, "What if...?".

It has more to do with examining the human condition than merely trying to fit in.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2017 - 12:06 PM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

It's simply because they're more fun and interesting. What is film for? Is it so we can watch what is going on in every town or city, or next door? We can watch this whenever we want. We go to work, we come home, we socialise.

Can we go to Mars? Can we travel in time? Can we fight monsters? Of course not. Film and it's variants (not getting into videotape and the digital thing) was invented so we can put on screen what was once purely in the mind and imagination.

This is why I love Ray Harryhausen's work, the Universal monsters, Star Trek, Star Wars, superheroes and Doctor Who (well, at least the last 50 odd years, I'll let you know about the rest). I watch Coronation Street, Eastenders and some shit reality shows for my lovely wife and daughter. But I don't love this tv.

I love sf and fantasy.

How many conventions do we know about soaps? About sitcoms? About straight drama? No. NONE. Even Sherlock only counts because of it's connection to a Doctor Who hierarchy.

 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2017 - 12:16 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

You also need to ask WHY people have been fascinated by this, and WHY there seems to be a correlation between people who struggle with various social and personal aspects -- the "real world", so to speak -- and those who are interested in sci fi and fantasy.
I think in most cases, it's a substitute for something else.



It is no different than anyone who has an intense interest or obsession with sport. Or religion. Or politics.
Sci-fi "nerds" are merely the easiest targets.
(The friends of mine who are huge into football, for example, have just as difficult a time interacting socially with those who are not.)

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2017 - 1:38 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

It is no different than anyone who has an intense interest or obsession with sport. Or religion. Or politics.
Sci-fi "nerds" are merely the easiest targets.
(The friends of mine who are huge into football, for example, have just as difficult a time interacting socially with those who are not.)


I think there's a big difference, although I can't really point to any sociological studies on the matter. It's only personal experience. Would love to see one, though.

Note that I'm not necessarily drawing any value judgements here (if so, I would also be judging myself as I'm also very much a sci fi fanboy), but I think it's essential to have a bit of meta cognition and recognize that the genre attracts certain types of people for a reason.

 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2017 - 3:08 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

I think there's a big difference, although I can't really point to any sociological studies on the matter. It's only personal experience. Would love to see one, though.

There isn't really a big difference. Everybody in the world gets turned on by something or other.
And I'm glad you mentioned personal experience.
Whenever someone makes an observation about something, it's always important to recognize that it's almost always according to what the person in question has been exposed to.
For example, someone who thinks all Trek fans are nerdish freaks has probably only ever seen that specific cross-section of Trek-enthusiasts--resulting in a slightly skewed perception.

Note that I'm not necessarily drawing any value judgements here (if so, I would also be judging myself as I'm also very much a sci fi fanboy), but I think it's essential to have a bit of meta cognition and recognize that the genre attracts certain types of people for a reason.

Like I said, it applies equally to whatever floats a person's boat.
I mentioned sports, religion and politics, but it could apply to almost anything.
Everything in the world attracts certain types of people, but I would say that most of them probably function normally in a social setting.
I'm the biggest sci-fi fan I know but I go out with people, have a few drinks, etc., etc., and I have never been to a sci-fi convention.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2017 - 3:14 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Well, I don't have quite as wishy-washy, relativist view as you on this matter ("Everything in the world attracts certain types of people" is a statement that negates anything meaningful).

My experience -- either directly or indirectly, through both participation and observation -- is that a lot of sci fi fans (or geeks) are 'outsiders' in one form or other. The degree to which they're socially apt may vary considerably, true, but there's always that element at the base of it all. There are things they get to "live out" through the fantasy worlds that they don't find in real life. And unquestionably, all of them have vibrant imagination.

 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2017 - 3:41 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Well, I don't have quite as wishy-washy, relativist view as you on this matter ("Everything in the world attracts certain types of people" is a statement that negates anything meaningful).
My experience -- either directly or indirectly, through both participation and observation -- is that a lot of sci fi fans (or geeks) are 'outsiders' in one form or other. The degree to which they're socially apt may vary considerably, true, but there's always that element at the base of it all. There are things they get to "live out" through the fantasy worlds that they don't find in real life. And unquestionably, all of them have vibrant imagination.



My view is not wishy-washy or relativistic.
Nor does it negate anything meaningful--except to you, it seems.
My view is inclusive.
It's a view that was taught to me by a lifetime of good sci-fi.
Anything else is EXclusionary, and I've stood against that for most of my life.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 7, 2017 - 3:52 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I can't help but chuckle a bit every time I point out a correlation between 'outsiders'/people with certain social or personal issues etc. and the cult popularity of science fiction and fantasy. Hardly farfetched, but it doesn't take long before someone chimes in with "No! No! No! We're as diverse as any niche. Nothing to see here. No more nerds or geeks or socially awkard people than in any other special interest! Move along, move along!". smile

I think there are a lot of self-deluded sci fi fans out there. The best thing, IMO, is to be open and honest about it; to embrace one's "different-ness" and not let it be a hindrance.

The WORST thing one can do is to do like Octoberman -- to be all relativist and defensive about it; to say there's no difference between sci fi fans and sports fans etc. This basically sucks out every special thing about it.

 
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