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As the announcement said DVD instead of DVD-A i''m inclined to agree with what "stupid" here is saying.
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That's why CD's have skip buttons, you don't like something, you skip to a track you do like.
When it comes to complete score releases to very high quality scores the pro's definatly overcome the con's.
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Posted: |
Sep 18, 2005 - 12:13 PM
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By: |
Joe E.
(Member)
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There is an argument to be made, and I consider it a very compelling one because, well, it is mine. And I think the world of me. There are those of us who believe that, more often than not (but with some very, very notable exceptions), complete score releases contain a good deal of repetition and frequently music that is functional cinematically but uninteresting as a listening experience. But this has been debated here many times before, and there's no shortage of people on this board who find this argument insane (though there are strong supporters of this, too... and not just Thor!).
That's fine, but a complete score can always be pared down to something one finds an interesting listening experience (assuming there's any interesting music there to begin with). An incomplete score release can't be expanded by the listener to include missing passages one really wants, however.
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Posted: |
Sep 18, 2005 - 12:35 PM
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By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
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That's fine, but a complete score can always be pared down to something one finds an interesting listening experience
Not really, given that one of the primary jobs of an album producer is often trimming repetitive or dull material within tracks (frequently, a score cue will of necessity suddenly halt for an extended held note, which is rarely worth hearing for more than a second but can go on for quite a while unedited).
And if a score's an hour and a half long and I want to pare it down, it means I'll have to listen to the entire score at least three times before deciding which cues I want, which is quite an investment of time so I can listen to music for enjoyment.
Please keep in mind, I'm just explaining why I, more often than not, don't get outraged when scores are released in incomplete form. I'm not telling you what you should want.
And in the case of "Lord of the Rings," with single CD releases already available, we all get what we want!
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And in the case of "Lord of the Rings," with single CD releases already available, we all get what we want!
And still Thor feels the need to bitch about it.
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Posted: |
Sep 18, 2005 - 1:56 PM
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By: |
Tom
(Member)
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OK, allow me these few sentences of venting and I promise not to poison your excitement in most of the future threads about this.
I say YUCK, YUCK and TRIPLE YUCK to this release. It's detrimental to the view on film music as a good listening experience. It contaminates all I believe in in terms of film music as PURE music. In short, I don't like the release nor the motivation behind it. It doesn't matter a monkey's ass to me if there is some splendid music left off the regular release that is being released on this set. If I want those moments, I put on my extended DVD set. The regular release encapsulates the sound world of FELLOWSHIP brilliantly in its 70+ minutes running time and I don't have any need for this massive overkill of a soundtrack "event".
Can I be this harsh without even having HEARD the damn thing? Yes, I can. I know the score to LOTR: FOTR and I know that I HATE complete and chronological presentations. That's enough.
OK, fire away if you want to. My party-poopin' is over (for now). 
NP: TITUS (Goldenthal)
Hey, one mans junk is whole LEGION of fans treasure. You can poop on our party all you want, but I and many many others are ecstatic. But at least you are not FORCED to buy it, then I would be upset right along with you.
Tom
(who cannot WAIT to hear the the entire thunderous male choral cue from Khazad Dum.)
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Can I be this harsh without even having HEARD the damn thing? Yes, I can. I know the score to LOTR: FOTR and I know that I HATE complete and chronological presentations. That's enough.
OK, fire away if you want to. My party-poopin' is over (for now).
Don't buy it, then.
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But i'm still not sure what your beef is with this release.
You already HAVE the release you wanted.
Let us have out turn.
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*Post deleted in a vain attempt to keep things civil.*
Thor has the right to his opinion even if it's a mockery of everything hold dear.
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Posted: |
Sep 18, 2005 - 7:37 PM
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By: |
Joe E.
(Member)
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Not really, given that one of the primary jobs of an album producer is often trimming repetitive or dull material within tracks (frequently, a score cue will of necessity suddenly halt for an extended held note, which is rarely worth hearing for more than a second but can go on for quite a while unedited).
Well, that's a judgement call; for some of us, including myself, a held note that goes on for more than a second can indeed be worth hearing. You might as well say a whole score isn't good, and therefore shouldn't be released; you always have the option of not buying it if it is, but the people whose opinion of the music differs from yours don't have the option of getting it if it doesn't come out.
And if a score's an hour and a half long and I want to pare it down, it means I'll have to listen to the entire score at least three times before deciding which cues I want, which is quite an investment of time so I can listen to music for enjoyment.
But it's not as though all that time will be completely wasted; after all, you'd still be deriving enjoyment from the music, even if it's not as optimal an experience. That you might run the terrible, terrible risk of - gasp! - hearing more music than you'd like one or two or three times pretty much pales when compared to the alternative, which is other people flat-out not getting to hear the music they want, at all, with no workaround or alternative means of getting it.
It's not just a film score thing; for decades, there've been popular music albums of all sorts with tracks some people love and can't get enough of, and other tracks those same people skip over. The thing is, not everyone always agrees on what the skippable tracks are. Fortunately, as long as an album is all there, nobody misses out on music they want.
With film scores, if there's material that's redundant or boring or whatever, you can always skip over it, but what do you suggest someone do if that material is what he or she really wants, just do totally without the music they're dying for?
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It's the principle that dictates such a release that I oppose and that I need to react to now and then. I just can't shut up about that. But now that I have said it, I'm ready to let you have your joy and not spoil the party anymore. That is, unless you continue to "bait me" for replies. 
NP: LOVER'S PRAYER (McNeely)
I think it's a world of individuals so maybe you might respect my motivation here Thor. I think of Howard Shore as a fine composer, even before the release of LOTR. I think of the LOTR books as a masterpiece. But I am not entirely won over by the films - they are very good on many levels, and sadly quite shallow on others which unfortunately are important to me. And I don't really need to watch them ever again - for guffaws the Bakshi animated version is far funnier, and the books take care of the rest.
So for me a LOTR complete score release is something quite different. For me it is Shore's epic cycle of musical pieces - some short, some long - based on Tolkien's novel. No synchronisation to the image required - no visual ballast - only the text as motivator and connector. The films act as a kind of mapping system - this motific idea is related to Aragorn, this to the kingdom of Gondor. But when I sit down and listen to the music in isolation, it would be like reading Tolkien's novel - a complete and self-contained work.
And I think Shore's music is up to the task. He researched his work and composed his themes largely from readings of the novel and researching the history of rings, so it can't be said to be music totally derived from the film. Neither does he let himself off the hook of good composition - you won't find Howard Shore hiding uninteresting music behind images. He rarely repeats themes verbatim, always subtly altering melodies with each appearance so that by the end of episode of the cycle, the melodic idea has gone on a journey. I see the score as the artwork that the film could have been.
So hopefully you won't begrudge people like me the chance to explore the complex musical structure (one of the most complex in a film series to date) without the burden of dwarf tossing, bridge-gap jumping, the falling world of men, Sean Astin, or that loathsome portrayal of Denethor.
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I know the score to FELLOWSHIP very well from having watched the extended DVD many times.
...and in all those viewings, isn't there at least ONE previously unreleased cue that you think would justify this new expanded release?
Me, I can think of several DOZEN unreleased cues that are not only NOT "repetitive", but completely flesh out and enhance an already magnificent score.
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