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Today, now that we know about Toch and the "Alleluia" contribution, I wonder why it is rarely, if ever, officially acknowledged on liner notes and cue listings for the various scores in which it is involved.
Bill Whittaker writes several pages (19-22) about the Hallelujah sketch in Marco Polo's 1997 re-recording of THE HUNCHBACK by the Moscow SO and William Stromberg. He claims that Fred Steiner considers the authorship an 'open question': "Did the sketch actually originate from Ernst Toch or was it dictated to Toch by Newman for further development, as was the custom then? And did Newman later rework Toch's sketch for inclusion in the film, enough so that it became a piece owing far more to Newman than Toch? ... Steiner has noted that the final version in the film shows significant changes. Until firm evidence surfaces... efforts to wholly or even partially to credit Ernst Toch are, to Fred Steiner, "pure speculation... Steiner's own research through others, including Newman's brother Emil and orchestrator, strongly suggests Toch may have written other music for the film, ultimately to see it reworked or discarded by Newman because it did not fit idiomatically."
Perhaps Jon Burlingame's ever-forthcoming book on the Newmans will shed further light on the issue.
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Posted: |
Jul 14, 2014 - 8:02 PM
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By: |
PFK
(Member)
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Today, now that we know about Toch and the "Alleluia" contribution, I wonder why it is rarely, if ever, officially acknowledged on liner notes and cue listings for the various scores in which it is involved.
Bill Whittaker writes several pages (19-22) about the Hallelujah sketch in Marco Polo's 1997 re-recording of THE HUNCHBACK by the Moscow SO and William Stromberg. He claims that Fred Steiner considers the authorship an 'open question': "Did the sketch actually originate from Ernst Toch or was it dictated to Toch by Newman for further development, as was the custom then? And did Newman later rework Toch's sketch for inclusion in the film, enough so that it became a piece owing far more to Newman than Toch? ... Steiner has noted that the final version in the film shows significant changes. Until firm evidence surfaces... efforts to wholly or even partially to credit Ernst Toch are, to Fred Steiner, "pure speculation... Steiner's own research through others, including Newman's brother Emil and orchestrator, strongly suggests Toch may have written other music for the film, ultimately to see it reworked or discarded by Newman because it did not fit idiomatically."
Perhaps Jon Burlingame's ever-forthcoming book on the Newmans will shed further light on the issue.
That's very interesting George, thanks for posting it.
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I recently, finally, saw this film ( I have owned the ost).
The music is the best part, fer sure
brm
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I just wanted to add my two cents worth to say that in the 1947 20th Century-Fox film DEEP WATERS, starring Dana Andrews and Dean Stockwell, the music score is credited to Cyril J Mockridge. However, it is quite apparent while playing the DVD of the film that most of the score is by Alfred Newman. His style was very distinctive and is easily recognisable.
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Be it old news or new, La La's Robe seems to have gone OP.
What does OP mean?
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Sold out, actually. The last thing I remember was a low quantities report saying there were 100 or fewer remaining.
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That's a shame for those who didn't get a hold of it as this is one of those scores that deserves to remain in print.
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I hope there are still copies of the LLL hanging around some stores for those who didn't pick it up. This is one of my favourite scores of all time, and the La-La set is simply gorgeous. It's so spine-tinglingly awesome - as in it creates a real sense of awe - that it's almost frightening. "The Crucifixion" is gruelling and totally compelling, in fact I always manage to get through the 2 CDs no problem. I actually WANT to keep hearing it to the end each time. A lot of soundtracks wear out their welcome within a few tracks, but this just transfixes me throughout. And I always come out of it feeling like I'm a better person, temporarily at least.
It's a truly astonishing masterpiece.
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Posted: |
Sep 10, 2015 - 1:04 PM
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By: |
Ron Pulliam
(Member)
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Ron --
Thanks for setting the record -- and me -- straight on the EGYPTIAN LP. I probably should have said in my post that I sometimes wondered if some of the tracks had been from the OST, but I never would have guessed that it was the lion's share. (Not to be confused with the one Horemheb kills.) We're all in your debt for passing on the Darby tidbit. THE EGYPTIAN is one of my probably five favorite film scores, and for my money there has never been enough recorded history or documentation about it.
If any part of the Decca disc was a re-recording, one would have to be the aforementioned march, whose instrumental sound on the album is quite different from that heard in the film. I've mentioned "Her Name Was Merit" and the garden seduction, but possibly the differentials in those two selections were attributable to editing, instead of recording. Perhaps not.
BTW, I've mentioned this before, but none of these wonderful CD's can quite replicate the thrill of sitting in a theater and hearing that six-channel main title come roaring out of the screen and searing the hairs on the back of your neck.
***
PERSONAL ASIDE:
I got an e-mail from Facebook informing me that Ron Pulliam had mentioned me in a Comment. I'll spare you the long story, but I had to undergo a lot of painstaking effort in order to access Facebook -- Yahoo trouble -- but finally I did find and read your Comment. (Have you guessed where this was heading?) That's right, it was your Comment about 50's TV cowboy actors -- including Wade Preston.
LOL! I hope it was a complimentary remark as befits your namesake!!
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Posted: |
Sep 10, 2015 - 2:32 PM
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By: |
Joe Caps
(Member)
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This is a nulti volume discography for Decca records that gives recording dates.
The Robe is spread out all over the place for several months, some of which seems to be also recorded in New York City !!!
However, NO dates are givn for recordings not specifically done at Decca. i.e. actual soundtracks - you will find no dates for Egyptian, Anastasia, Young Lions etc because they are lifted from the actual Fox tracks.
According to ken darby, apecial contracts had to be made, because, like most other film studios(besides MGM), did not have a regular program of film albums.
1953 seems to be the breakthrough year. The Robe was a rerecording because Newman wanted to edit and rework some of the cuts to fit more music on one album. The conract was to include the Robe but NOT credit the Fox orchestra - both albums claims it is the Hollywood Symphony orch and chorus but no its Fox. Mercury records had siphoned off a single from its Captain from Castille set with the catana theme on one side and the march on the flip side that had sold reasonablly well. To that end Decca wanted the same thing from the Egyptian with the merit theme on one side and the horemhebs march rewritten to sound liek the Castille march.
Fox also releaed their first fox musicals on lp in 19532 from the actual tracks - Call Me Madam, also for decca and Gentlemen Prefer Blondes , surpsingly for the MGM label.
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