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Hey all,
Just left a message at Intrada's board but was wondering if this had been answered here... saw a thread or two about it but no apparent answer... the remastered version of "The Orgy" (not from the original album) appears to be missing some big splashy percussion near the climax (ha ha) of the piece. Anyone know why? Missing overlays (which would be my first guess)? I'm certainly not bitching since the other version is right there on disc three. Just curious.
Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this!
Matt
oh, really?
Then THAT'S WHY the bluray release is also missing those big Gong hits in the mix!
I guess they used the same "masters"..
I too prefer the piece as it were WITH the hits..
Does it by any chance missing any chorus from the initial battle scene and somewhere else too? Because the Bluray has also that error..
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Matt B, Doug answered your question this morning on the Intrada messageboard
Here's what light I can shed on this, and it's not a whole lot. I hope it helps, though. Regarding "The Orgy", the tam tam and gong roll at the end actually appears to have been an effect added during post production to assist in a smoother audio edit into the subsequent kitchen battle music, which was all done editorially. It was not recorded onto the 2" 24-track tapes. Being those are the actual tapes running on the Italian tape machines at the sessions, they probably should be considered authoritative in what Basil intended, or at least actually recorded. Everything else mixed down, combined, edited, tweaked or otherwise monkeyed with would have to have come from them.
The later 1/4" two-track mixes (discussed briefly in our liner notes) were used for the album and cassettes in their day and it appears the tam tam roll edited into the picture made it into those mixes, hence their inclusion on our third disc. You do get it both ways on our release: what was composed and recorded initially AND what was editorially added to the film and the subsequent two-track record mix downs. Whether this roll was added into the two-track mixes by accident or design, I sure can't say. In fact, there were also four-track mix downs made on half inch tape (actually three tracks plus a synch pulse for track number four) so keep in mind that was yet another generation introduced into this massive project.
I speak with some authority about all of these master elements since I worked with them all... thusly I'm not just shooting from the hip. That said, since neither composer nor orchestrator are with us any longer, determining exactly what happened where and when may be sadly buried with those irreplaceable artists.
I don't know anything about "missing" percussion in "Atlantean Sword", however. Mixed lower, maybe. Missing, I just don't think so. However, working on this set for months on end left me with many a ringing in my ears at bedtime. Anything could be possible.
--Doug
http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=62409#p62409
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Posted: |
Jan 8, 2013 - 9:33 PM
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By: |
Yen Fai
(Member)
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I must say that I am very happy with both the Intrada and Tadlow releases. It saddens me that the Intrada is missing certain variations, but it wasn't their goal to make an 'archival' presentation. I'm lucky enough to have all four releases of this fantastic score, so the differences simply mean I have more Poledouris to enjoy! Anyways, I've said it before; it often seems that for certain soundtracks there is simply no definitive version, due in part to creative choices for differing film prints/video formats, often made without the composer's or director's participation. It just depends on which version of the film you happen to be familiar with.
However, there's one teensy pet peeve I've had since Tadlow's release. In light of assurances from both Tadlow and Intrada with regards to Poledouris's intentions and assumed approval, one thing that boggles my mind is the inclusion of the admittedly awkward end title edit. Surely Poledouris would not bestow his approval upon the use of this edit outside of the film.
I can accept it's inclusion on the Intrada; by all means include it as an extra for the diehard fans if desired, but I don't feel it should be put under the umbrella of Poledouris's intent and approval. That said, why oh why the painstaking efforts to recreate it for the Tadlow release? To put an orchestra through its paces duplicating the whims of a sound editor seems disrespectful both to the composer and the orchestra. (No disrespect intended towards sound editors, but these releases rightfully trump their decisions.) I just wanted to get that off my chest, and I should say the inclusion of the end titles doesn't hinder my enjoyment of these stellar releases one iota.
I love these releases and can't wait for Conan the Destroyer! (I hope Intrada includes the Sword and Sorcery Spectacular as Tadlow did.)
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I see stuff has already been thrashed out years ago. But I'm only discovering it now.
The percussion is also missing from 'Head Chop' on the Intrada release.
The Tadlow release gives this cue description by Frank K.DeWald: "7. Head Chop (0:53) ... brutal orchestral accents shatter the spell..."
And of course , the brutal orchestral accents are there... as they are on 3 "previous releases" in my collection.
But they, (the percussion hits/ orchestral accents), must have been written into the score for Tadlow to transcribe and record them for their release.
This is not so much a complaint as it is an observation. I'm quite grateful to have all the CONAN that we got. My guess is the percussion was recorded later.
I'll buy this all over again if it's ever updated.
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