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Posted: |
Mar 21, 2011 - 6:59 AM
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By: |
Robert0320
(Member)
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There are many examples of recent film scores that work well within the confines of their celluloid environment and yet, once divorced from it and released as a stand alone CD, they fall flat as a listening experience (at least to me). Without spouting specific examples and ruffling any feathers (which is quite easy to do on thsi forum), I aak, is it the film composer's job to insure a well rounded sonic experience or does his or her job stop once the music is laid into the film for which it was written? My take: Why can't we have both? Soundtracks are marketing tools, hopefully promoting the given title, either enticing one to view the picture or conjuring up pleasent memories of the film going experience. While some will argue that as long as the music serves the film, it has done it's job, I feeel that once you ask a customer to buy the score, it must transcend it's original purpose and entertain on it's own two feet. Many composers in the past were able to this on a consistent basis, well schooled or grounded in melody, harmony, counetrpoint and orchestration, able to craft music that tells a story or conveys emotion in an entertaining way. There are a few practicioners today who still have that knack...but not many. After a long dry spell, I have made it a point to buy quite a few recent soundtracks to see if things have imnproved. They have, but only slightly. I guess the days when 80% of the scores being composed would compel me to listen again and again are gone and I shall have to hope that my future purchases are chosen carefully.
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I have been lucky and found composers who accomplish both tasks, working with the film and writing music that stands on its own. It is only a matter of time when the music that works both ways will be recognized as great and will be incorporated into classical music. Some already has on KUAT-FM. Just takes time. Judy in Tucson
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Posted: |
Mar 21, 2011 - 8:15 AM
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By: |
Spymaster
(Member)
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Excellent topic. Well no. The movie must always come first. If the music works away from the movie, then that's a bonus. In the "old" days, only those scores that were considered "easy listening" were released on LP, sequenced into nice pockets of 20 minutes per side for listeners skimming between Frank Sinatra and James Last. There were exceptions to that rule, of course, but generally you were more likely to get a Barry or Mancini album (re-created of course) than a Herrmann! Nowadays every new score gets a release, whether it deserves to or not. And everything is as long as it can be, whether it can sustain it or not. I was quite enjoying "Battle: Los Angeles" for the first 30 mins or so, but then I realised it was getting samey. And then more samey. And then intolerable. Whether or not you think a score works on album is entirely up to your own taste. I love to dig into a score and explore its every facet, regardless of how "listenable" it may be on the surface. Fiedel's Terminator scores are prime examples. The original Terminator gets a LOT of spins in my player! Criminal Law is another example that's being discussed elsewhere. So there's no right or wrong answer. If something's written well then it'll always stand to be listened to. As Jerry Goldsmith once said, when asked about his composing technique, "First of all it has to be a good piece of music".
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In and of itself, I'd say no. But good music is good music, regardless of intended medium or purpose (or in some cases, partially because of intended purpose or medium). It is interesting to see Thor's response here, as he is correct in many ways. But soundtracks are a unique thing, and have to serve many roles, for many intermingled, yet subtly different audiences. Soundtracks should present the music as composed/intended by the composer, with some balance in the presentation for listening experience. Some scores work well in complete form, and an archival release is always appreciated, especially as a way to preserve everything the composer created in a form that works (LLL's Star Trek V and Batman Returns are great examples of this). However, there are times when an Album presentation can help the score's accessibility, and present a more pleasing general listening experience. The original Star Wars LP arrangement is an example of this, compared to the 2-CD Complete release from 1997. When it comes to communities such as this one, most of us want as complete a release as possible (97 Star Wars), even though we also love well-crafted Album presentations (Star Wars LP). I bring up Star Wars, as it meets both forms perfectly, IMHO. In the end, a soundtrack should represent the score in the best possible light, but a score really should not be designed for a soundtrack release, but chiefly for the movie it is intended for.
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Posted: |
Mar 21, 2011 - 4:57 PM
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By: |
DeputyRiley
(Member)
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In the case of Marco Beltrami & Buck Sanders's Academy Award nominated score to The Hurt Locker, the answer, according to just about anyone and everyone, would be a resounding NO. The music there was an excellent example of serving the film first, and the composers were so committed to matching their score to that film with apparent disregard for its listening experience, I believe, that it earned them their nomination, which I hightly think they deserved. They and the director knew what the film needed, which was a highly unusual and unconventional approach, bereft of melody and orchestra, a harsh and uncompromising yet ambitious and functional score that would help to tell that particular story. I doubt anyone else (besides me) would want to listen to it on its own, except maybe to appreciate its craft, which it possesses in great abundance in my opinion. As it happens, and I am a self-professed Beltrami/Sanders nut, I do appreciate listening to The Hurt Locker on its own, but it's one of the best examples I can think of in arguing that film score music should serve the film first and foremost. Ironically, as many of Beltrami's scores go unreleased, The Hurt Locker did get a CD release, which would seem counterintuitive to the average film score listener, I would imagine, because it is not even close to what I would surmise most film score CD purchasers are looking for (although it's impossible to even narrow that down). No doubt its Oscar nomination green-lit the CD production, to the delight of myself and maybe Lokutus and perhaps one other guy in the midwest. You're all missing out though!
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Posted: |
Mar 21, 2011 - 6:24 PM
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By: |
SoundScope
(Member)
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I've just this week begun to listen once again to my scores by Eric W. Korngold. All I can say is that the genius here is in no way beholding to the film it was composed for. But you can hear what this music must have done for the film! Just watch any of these old gems (ELIZABETH AND ESSEX, THE SEA WOLF, DECEPTION, CAPTAIN BLOOD, JUAREZ, and countless others), and then listen to the Charles Gerhardt recordings.... The better the score written for a film, the better it stands alone. Korngold was one of the best. We all have our favorites and most of them excelled at their craft. For me, personally, I don't find too many of the current crop able to reach me enough to buy the score. Admitidly, tastes and styles of film scoring have changed, so there's the rub. Generally though, I'll repeat: The better the score written for a film, the better it stands alone.
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In a perfect world, I would love that it would, but I can't criticize it if it doesn't as first and foremost it's made for the movie. If it can hold up on it's own as a good listen, that's just gravy.
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Posted: |
Mar 21, 2011 - 7:36 PM
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By: |
Thgil
(Member)
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"Should" they? No. It's not a requisite. The point of a score is to fit the film. That's the only thing they "should" do. I like it when they do both but, given the collected sum of films, not all that many do. Sometimes fitting the film doesn't make the best listening experience. My example: Terminator 2. Don't get me wrong. I really enjoy listening to it on its own. (I know, a lot of people here don't. I do.) However, I get more enjoyment out of a score like Star Trek V or Flesh + Blood. The funny thing about those is that, while fitting the films for which they were written, they don't fit the films like a glove. T2 on the other hand ceases being a score and becomes part of the overall soundscape of the film. It's musical when it needs to be (Desert Suite) and loaded with sound effects if need be (Nuclear Nightmare) but it fits the film 100% in my opinion. Granted, I know there was lots of tracking so I'm talking about the parts which weren't fiddled with. So, in closing, perhaps a score that becomes part of the soundscape of a film is what the goal of young directors is today. That's why we have so many crappy scores. Though they really don't fit like Fiedel's work. That theory's toast. And, having made the soundscape spiel, I wouldn't trade the scores to Star Trek V or Flesh + Blood for anything in the world. They fit their films damn well. With the best of them.
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I don't think there is a single answer to this for two reasons: A film score's primary purpose is to be a tool. Whatever the needs of the film are, the score needs to fit them, and that takes precedence over any other concern. The style of the film will dictate the overall sound of the score, and styles in cinema change along with the era. The soundtrack album is a by-product of a greater creative process. For us it often eclipses its use in the film (this is particularly true for we Jerry Goldsmith and John Scott fans, as they've both scored many movies better off left forgotten), but for those involved in its creation, the music was about its function in the film. There are many varying opinions regarding what constitutes "listenability." Some people like only melodic orchestral scores, others like more harmonically dense material, others like electronics. Pull up any thread on a film score and you'll find at least one or two dissenting voices.
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Posted: |
Mar 22, 2011 - 6:19 AM
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By: |
.
(Member)
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With very few exceptions, if it was really meant to "stand on its own", the composer would need to adapt it as a concert suite or suchlike. In the absence of that, it's up to the individual listener to decide if it's worth listening to away from the film. Since about 0.0000000000000000005 (or less) of the industrial world's population buys soundtracks on anything like a regular basis, I suppose the conclusion must be "No, soundtrack music does not work on its own for most people and, but for a very, very, very tiny minority of listeners, nor should it".
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Posted: |
Mar 22, 2011 - 10:07 AM
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By: |
Adam S
(Member)
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With very few exceptions, if it was really meant to "stand on its own", the composer would need to adapt it as a concert suite or suchlike. In the absence of that, it's up to the individual listener to decide if it's worth listening to away from the film. Since about 0.0000000000000000005 (or less) of the industrial world's population buys soundtracks on anything like a regular basis, I suppose the conclusion must be "No, soundtrack music does not work on its own for most people and, but for a very, very, very tiny minority of listeners, nor should it". I basically agree though there's very little in the official culture that encourages people to cultivate an interest towards an orchestra or towards film music with the exception of the films themselves. It takes some rare combination of factors, like lightening striking, where a person decides to take that lonely path of cultivating a taste for film music. Those who do discover its riches but it takes some effort. So the tiny numbers of people are skewed downward in an age where mass popular culture goes in a completely different direction. Still, your basic point stands. Even a composer like John Williams, who is relatively popular, has mentioned that if his music has popularity outside the film, it is a "happy accident." He does do things in terms of album arrangment, concert suites and he obviously had the Boston Pops to help popularize film music but I take that as a recognition that the music is really being written first and foremost for the film with no particular expectations that it will have a life beyond that. - Adam
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