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Oh, I thought this came out several years ago as a Fox 5-Star Collection DVD. It had one of the thicker, silver-colored, double-DVD cases. It had a third disc stuffed into a pocket of the liner notes. According to Amazon, the complete restored 4-hour print of the film was spread across two discs, with the third disc containing a 2-hour documentary and other supplements.
In fact, that DVD came out in the same year as the 2-disc CD set (2001).
I always assumed that this version was a full restoration. Am I wrong?
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There was an article by James Beuselink describing director Joseph Mankiewicz's 6-hour version of Cleopatra in the January 1988 issue of Films in Review. The article concluded as follows:
"If all of the edited-out footage were to be located, there would still be the tremendous difficulty of editing Cleopatra according to Mankiewicz's original conception of the film. Mankiewicz's Cleopatra is a motion picture that was never completed. There has never been a ready-to-be-released six-hour Cleopatra in existence. The six-hour version never made it beyond the stage of a rough cut. No post production work was completed. All of the lab work, music scoring, sound effects work, etc. remains incomplete. There are also financial problems. A restoration may not be cost effective for Twentieth Century-Fox. Barring a reissue of the 246 minute version in 70mm (which would be a real eye opener for today's jaded audiences), all one can hope for is to see Cleopatra in 194 minute, 35mm revivals. This is because a 35mm negative was never made from the 246 minute 70mm version. Twentieth Century-Fox should correct this matter while there is still time."
I don't know what has changed in the 22 years since this article was written. I seem to recall reading that Fox did strike a new 70mm print of the film some years back for showings at AMPAS and other specialized venues, but I can't confirm that. I saw the 35mm 194-minute version at the American Film Institute about 15 years ago.
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I have a feeling that if they restored it to 6 hours and then cut it back to two, but using completely different bits of the film, there might just be some kind of masterpiece in there.
that's a sizzling line PP. you ever thought of being a film critic!!?
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"If all of the edited-out footage were to be located, there would still be the tremendous difficulty of editing Cleopatra according to Mankiewicz's original conception of the film. Mankiewicz's Cleopatra is a motion picture that was never completed. There has never been a ready-to-be-released six-hour Cleopatra in existence. The six-hour version never made it beyond the stage of a rough cut. No post production work was completed. All of the lab work, music scoring, sound effects work, etc. remains incomplete.
And this sad to say is why the initial vision can never be seen even if all the footage were found. We'd have to hear tracked music and soundalike voice dubbing just to make it barely presentable (and I don't think La Liz would want to offer any contributions).
What I'd like to know is if there is any kind of script in existence based on the rough cut, since that could at least allow us to understand better how it would have unfolded.
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Would love to see the 6 hour cut, cost permitting the voices for Harrison and Burton could be dubbed by Anthony Hopkins, for Ms Taylor any female with a screechy voice. John Williams would be the ideal composer to adapt or compose in North's style.
No, no, no .... Hopkins can't do either of those. He's a good actor, but he isn't the impersonator everyone across the pond thinks. I spotted him immediately in 'Spartacus' and even in 'Longest Day', where he had one line as Leo Genn. I don't criticise him or his talent, but I do think US folk tend to think all English voices alike. They aren't. Burton needs a darker, sharper but more gravelly approach and Harrison is higher pitched and lighter. Trust me. I work at this.
Would Williams be able to adapt North? Maybe, if he could regenerate his early stuff and call up what he did for the likes of 'Catch Me If You Can'. But his is a different feel.
I don't think I ever heard of a 'full' reconstruction. Remember that the film was chopped later for TV etc., so that's probably all they meant. I did hear somewhere that such a thing would probably be impossible. It strikes me that there probably never WAS a 'complete' version to begin with, since the decisions to rehash and edit were taken before anyone had a decent assembly made. A 10-hour version or 6 hour probably never really existed in full footage. I must check the DVD documentary to make sure about that.
But it's a film that would probably only suffer by being longer. It couldn't be shortened much, and lengthening might add subplots but it would detract even more from the tragedy-arc that is already so dissolved. It's not a terrible film, but not a great one either. That's about it. Things like absurd costume-design in the Egyptian dept. won't improve either. You'd need a rewrite and different performances from the same actors to get more kick in it.
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What I'd like to know is if there is any kind of script in existence based on the rough cut, since that could at least allow us to understand better how it would have unfolded.
I have a copy of the script that I bought online, although I haven't looked at it in years. The script includes scenes with characters that are missing from or only mentioned in the release version. For instance, there's a scene with Titus the Moneylender (played by Finlay Currie according to IMDB); in the released film the only reference to the character was after his body was thrown over the wall of Cleopatra's villa. While it's interesting to see many of the "blanks" filled in and some of the ragged continuity explained, I don't remember anything critical to the general narrative.
"Cleopatra" has always been one of my favorite films. The characters in it seem and act real, fueled by modern ambitions. It has crackling dialogue, stupendous set design and eye-popping spectacle. And of course, one of the best scores ever.
As to Jaggers' topic-starting question, if he had watched the documentary packed in the the DVD his questions about the 6 hour version should have been answered. As I recall, Lukas also put to rest the rumor that North had scored a six hour version.
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Would love to see the 6 hour cut, cost permitting the voices for Harrison and Burton could be dubbed by Anthony Hopkins, for Ms Taylor any female with a screechy voice. John Williams would be the ideal composer to adapt or compose in North's style.
No, no, no .... Hopkins can't do either of those. He's a good actor, but he isn't the impersonator everyone across the pond thinks. I spotted him immediately in 'Spartacus' and even in 'Longest Day', where he had one line as Leo Genn. I don't criticise him or his talent, but I do think US folk tend to think all English voices alike. They aren't. Burton needs a darker, sharper but more gravelly approach and Harrison is higher pitched and lighter. Trust me. I work at this.
Would Williams be able to adapt North? Maybe, if he could regenerate his early stuff and call up what he did for the likes of 'Catch Me If You Can'. But his is a different feel.
I don't think I ever heard of a 'full' reconstruction. Remember that the film was chopped later for TV etc., so that's probably all they meant. I did hear somewhere that such a thing would probably be impossible. It strikes me that there probably never WAS a 'complete' version to begin with, since the decisions to rehash and edit were taken before anyone had a decent assembly made. A 10-hour version or 6 hour probably never really existed in full footage. I must check the DVD documentary to make sure about that.
But it's a film that would probably only suffer by being longer. It couldn't be shortened much, and lengthening might add subplots but it would detract even more from the tragedy-arc that is already so dissolved. It's not a terrible film, but not a great one either. That's about it. Things like absurd costume-design in the Egyptian dept. won't improve either. You'd need a rewrite and different performances from the same actors to get more kick in it.
I agree with that last paragraph. Specifically, "It's not a terrible film, but not a great one either. "
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I have a copy of the script that I bought online, although I haven't looked at it in years. The script includes scenes with characters that are missing from or only mentioned in the release version. For instance, there's a scene with Titus the Moneylender (played by Finlay Currie according to IMDB); in the released film the only reference to the character was after his body was thrown over the wall of Cleopatra's villa. While it's interesting to see many of the "blanks" filled in and some of the ragged continuity explained, I don't remember anything critical to the general narrative.
The full script, which I have, is about 380 pages long and contains everything that would have been in a 6 1/2-hour version (or, more correctly, two 3 1/4-hour films). The excised subplot with Titus the Moneylender (played by Finlay Currie, who played Balthasar in BEN-HUR, among many other "epic" roles) was crucial to the larger narrative of the film in its 4-hour roadshow form, and its absence makes various events and character motivations difficult to fathom: Titus had, over many years, lent huge sums of money to members of the Senate and holds notes on the senators' debts. Cleopatra visits Titus, wanting to buy those notes so that she can force the indebted senators to confirm Caesar as emperor of Rome. Titus refuses to sell, saying that he'd be a marked man if he let Cleo control them. She replies coldly that Titus is a dead man if he doesn't. Titus agrees reluctantly but, shortly after the bargain is sealed, he's murdered and his body is thrown over the wall of Caesar's villa.
The implication is clear: those in the Senate whose debts Titus controlled don't want Caesar as emperor under any circumstances no longer have the votes to prevent it, and it forces the hand of Cassius, Brutus, Casca, Cimber and the other conspirators, as they realize that killing Caesar is the only way to keep Rome a republic.
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How do you pronounce your name, 1D575E2B2F063F1E244A5B2C0926373D39575B?
Its spelt Luxury-Yacht but its pronounced throat-warbler mangrove...!
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