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 Posted:   Oct 15, 2003 - 8:05 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)


I just finished reading the terrific bio on Bernard Herrmann, A HEART AT FIRE'S CENTER.

I didn't know that BH was the first conductor to champion the music of Charles Ives, but I am not surprised(bravo Bennie!).

But, The Beatles?!!

According to BH, he was in Liverpool in 1961 and went to see them at the Cavern Club. He was so impressed with their music he took their tapes with him back to the USA , shopped them around to all the record companies, and tried to get them a recording contract.

I would LOVE to believe this story, but I am skeptical, considering BH's known antipathy to pop music(in films, at least) and his classically oriented background. Can anybody confirm this? If the author Steven SMith reads this maybe he can shed some light.
Bruce r
SF< CA
P.s
Shouldn't the title of the book be A FIRE AT HEART'S CENTER?
It seems the author misinterpolated the poem from whence the title comes.

 
 Posted:   Oct 15, 2003 - 10:15 PM   
 By:   PhiladelphiaSon   (Member)

Don't know if it is true or not. But one thing's for sure, "The Beatles" loved Bennie, as "Eleanor Rigby" confirms

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 16, 2003 - 12:24 AM   
 By:   DylanS   (Member)

A great discussion on this topic:

http://zarniwoop.intermedia.uib.no/talking/view.cgi?forum=thGeneral&topic=123

Dylan

 
 Posted:   Oct 16, 2003 - 12:27 AM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

Don't know if it is true or not. But one thing's for sure, "The Beatles" loved Bennie, as "Eleanor Rigby" confirms

Do you mean to say the arrangment by George Martin is Hermannesque? If not,how so, John?

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 16, 2003 - 2:01 AM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

Seems to me that Benny not only wrote music that tastes good but he was a composer with good taste, too!wink

 
 Posted:   Oct 16, 2003 - 2:07 AM   
 By:   PhiladelphiaSon   (Member)



Do you mean to say the arrangment by George Martin is Hermannesque? If not,how so, John?


The Beatles have always admitted that the strings were an homage to the music in "Psycho".

 
 Posted:   Oct 16, 2003 - 4:45 AM   
 By:   Laurent WATTEAU   (Member)

It seems there are a lot of threads about Mr Herrmann those days... is he dead?

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 16, 2003 - 5:14 AM   
 By:   ian642002   (Member)

If he's not then someone's made a dreadful mistake.

 
 Posted:   Oct 16, 2003 - 6:25 AM   
 By:   Laurent WATTEAU   (Member)

If he's not then someone's made a dreadful mistake.

Benny died in 1975, Elvis in 1977...or did they?

One thing remains certain : "Paul is dead" !
big grin

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 16, 2003 - 7:18 AM   
 By:   Jostein   (Member)

Seems to me that Benny not only wrote music that tastes good but he was a composer with good taste, too!wink

I don't know, I was never that fond of The Beatles. Give me Bernard Herrmann over "She loves you" any day.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 16, 2003 - 9:10 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Shouldn't the title of the book be A FIRE AT HEART'S CENTER?
It seems the author misinterpolated the poem from whence the title comes.


No, I think it was a very conscious "alteration" of the phrase. After all, most people considered Herrmann to be a rash man with an unpredictable temper. However, the autobiographist obviously wants to show that there was a "heart" inside the "fire", so to speak - both musically and personally. I believe that's what the title wants to say - and I must say it's very clever.

 
 Posted:   Oct 16, 2003 - 5:48 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)



The Beatles have always admitted that the strings were an homage to the music in "Psycho".


Close.
According to George Martin, who scored the string octet, he was influenced by the Herrmann music from FAHRENHEIT 451! "Paul told me he wanted a rhythym thing, for the strings".
Info from "The Beatles Recording Sessions"

 
 Posted:   Oct 17, 2003 - 12:11 AM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)



No, I think it was a very conscious "alteration" of the phrase. After all, most people considered Herrmann to be a rash man with an unpredictable temper. However, the autobiographist obviously wants to show that there was a "heart" inside the "fire", so to speak - both musically and personally. I believe that's what the title wants to say - and I must say it's very clever.


It may be clever in a poetic sense, but I still feel it's a rather clumsy title. Great book though!

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 17, 2003 - 12:33 AM   
 By:   BJN   (Member)

C'mon, can anybody imagine Bennie in the front row of the Cavern Club in Liverpool, pit moshing to "She Loves You" and singing along the chorus, "yeah, yeah, yeah"?

 
 Posted:   Oct 17, 2003 - 2:15 AM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

C'mon, can anybody imagine Bennie in the front row of the Cavern Club in Liverpool, pit moshing to "She Loves You" and singing along the chorus, "yeah, yeah, yeah"?

I know, I know, that's what I thought, but.... remember, the music of Charles Ives was virtually unknown and/or reviled , when BH discovered IT!
So, as unlikely as it seems, there is a precedent of him championing unknown,"cacophonous", music.
But, I love your imagery BJN!

 
 Posted:   Oct 17, 2003 - 2:31 AM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

A great discussion on this topic:

http://zarniwoop.intermedia.uib.no/talking/view.cgi?forum=thGeneral&topic=123

Dylan


Thanks so much for the info Dylan. I just checked out the site you mentioned. Seems I wasn't the only one to take notice of BH's Beatle story!

 
 Posted:   Oct 17, 2003 - 6:08 AM   
 By:   Guenther K   (Member)



Close.
According to George Martin, who scored the string octet, he was influenced by the Herrmann music from FAHRENHEIT 451! "Paul told me he wanted a rhythym thing, for the strings".
Info from "The Beatles Recording Sessions"


As 451 was written AFTER Rigby, hardly possible.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 17, 2003 - 10:01 AM   
 By:   Donna   (Member)



I don't know, I was never that fond of The Beatles. Give me Bernard Herrmann over "She loves you" any day.


Gosh, are you gonna judge The Beatles on "She Loves You"? As a fan of good music, I'm sure you know better than that.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 17, 2003 - 10:23 AM   
 By:   Jostein   (Member)

I acknowledge that Paul and George Harrison were talented guys, but from what I've heard of The Beatles, I much rather prefer their later solo-projects, particular what I've heard from Harrison.

 
 Posted:   Oct 17, 2003 - 11:33 AM   
 By:   PhiladelphiaSon   (Member)



Close.
According to George Martin, who scored the string octet, he was influenced by the Herrmann music from FAHRENHEIT 451! "Paul told me he wanted a rhythym thing, for the strings".
Info from "The Beatles Recording Sessions"


Well, no, I'm not close. I'm there! Martin is either senile or lying. Just listen to it! If you can't picture Janet Leigh driving to the Bates Motel in the rain, then you haven't seen or heard "Psycho". Anyway, "Eleanor Rigby" was written BEFORE "Fahrenheit 451", so it is impossible for it to have influenced him.

 
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