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Posted: |
Jan 12, 2025 - 11:36 AM
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By: |
richuk
(Member)
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All said and done though, I go along with releasing the music as the composer intends, not a director's reedited hodgepodge..
Composers can create their own hodgepodges too 
I have a handful of OSTs that seem to butcher their scores more than the film, but I think there's an element of 'composer-approved' in this debate, and inherent feeling that if the composer didn't enact an edit or change, that we don't need to hear it.
If you want to hear film edits, watch the film.
I know that you praise composers for rearranging their material for listening, but if you think about it, they're changing their own score, and in some cases more than the film does. A composer might find an arrangement of a cue that works particularly for listening, whereas a director might find one that works for the film and has a similarly positive effect on the listening experience. Both involve editing, mixing, and potentially material from elsewhere in the score. I'm not saying your approach is wrong, but that both approaches can have merit.
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Posted: |
Jan 12, 2025 - 11:41 AM
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By: |
Spymaster
(Member)
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again, why not film edit
we want the unoque OST with all edits that exist there
it seems the OST has some nostalgic value here and there
No we don't.
Because often, changes to the music are simply a result of last-minute edits to the film, flipping whole scenes around is a lot easier now, in the digital world, than it was in the "old days" of physically cutting and taping film together. You may be used to how the score plays, but that doesn't make it right. Personally I'm delighted when an album reveals cues, or parts of cues, that were chopped out of the film. I certainly wouldn't want the album to slavishly copy a potentially messed up film presentation.
ALIEN is an extreme example, but I can see why 99% of listeners were confused, even Dan O'Bannen was furious! Still, Goldsmith was 100% correct to present his music the way he wanted.
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Personally, if I'm listening to music outside of the film's context, how it was exactly in the film isn't relevant. I much prefer to listen to the music as it was recorded (and I'm dis-including 'album edits' here, but this includes any specific for album recordings, they are very different things )as to me that's the way it was intended (and usually written though I'm aware often times things are changed on the recording stage and not reflected in what's written out).
I agree with all of this; patch edits as done for the film are by and large not relevant to me. I want the music the composer wrote and performed. There may be exceptions to this where a patched edit may make musically sense, but for the most part, they are done editorially without input by the composer (and not all editors are John Ottman, who actually knows music), and it usually sounds like that too.
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Personally, if I'm listening to music outside of the film's context, how it was exactly in the film isn't relevant. I much prefer to listen to the music as it was recorded (and I'm dis-including 'album edits' here, but this includes any specific for album recordings, they are very different things )as to me that's the way it was intended (and usually written though I'm aware often times things are changed on the recording stage and not reflected in what's written out).
This indeed! The idea to listen to a score like "Aliens" as it is used in the film instead of how Horner intended it, sounds absurd to me.
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Personally, if I'm listening to music outside of the film's context, how it was exactly in the film isn't relevant. I much prefer to listen to the music as it was recorded (and I'm dis-including 'album edits' here, but this includes any specific for album recordings, they are very different things )as to me that's the way it was intended (and usually written though I'm aware often times things are changed on the recording stage and not reflected in what's written out).
This indeed! The idea to listen to a score like "Aliens" as it is used in the film instead of how Horner intended it, sounds absurd to me.
what sounds absurd to you does not make that definite for others
Just becaurse you want something one way does not mean others want another way
You already got a film edit from ALIENS on the deluxe edition in the bonus tracks sections
you also got a percussion track X2 - and why? because one track was overlayed in it's cue make it sound like there were multiple percussion and the other was mono for the cue that it belonged to
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As someone totally unfamiliar with that film or score... what in particular is wrong with the music in that clip? Seems a little OTT at the start to me, but otherwise seems ok to me.
It's one of Benny's cues dubbed over the top of another.
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Posted: |
Jan 14, 2025 - 7:42 AM
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By: |
Polonius67
(Member)
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jkruppa: ”I get how people just want to hear what the composer wrote, and I don't necessarily disagree, but the one major exception for me is the Snowspeeder Rescue from The Empire Strikes Back. The film edit is comprised of three separate pieces of music, and that cue was always a highlight for me. I'm not sure if the film version is an edit or a new recording of the composite pieces but I made my own years ago so I could have that as part of the soundtrack.”
I agree with this. I was very surprised/slightly disappointed when I first heard the “correct” version of Luke’s Rescue. I was so used to the version in the film (tracked from the Hyperspace cue later in the film), that it just felt wrong. I’m used to the original version now, and like it, but it would have been nice to have that particular edit as a bonus track. Maybe on a future complete release of all nine SW movies?
I don’t know why they chose to replace the original piece, but whoever came up with the idea of using Hyperspace was very clever, as it works brilliantly in the movie.
If I had to choose, though, I absolutely prefer to have John Williams’ original composition. So, thanks for that!
I was even more disappointed after having seen the mediocre film THE GHOST AND THE DARKNESS, but loving Jerry Goldsmith’s music and gotten the soundtrack cd, to find that the cue for the climax of the film was very different from what I remembered: Rousing, thrilling with a killer ending. The one on the album was very low key.
Thankfully, years later the expanded album came out, and here it turned out that the producers of the film (like me) didn’t like Jerrys low key finale and had asked him to do a new version. Reluctantly, Jerry did, and he gave them a more spirited version. They still weren’t happy, and so he did a second alternate version where he pulled out all the stops. And it’s that version I saw - and missed on the OST album. I guess you could argue that the mediocre film didn’t merit such a glorious finish, but it certainly got my attention.
So, thank you, Intrada, for that!
- Sune
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Posted: |
Jan 14, 2025 - 1:05 PM
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By: |
erepel
(Member)
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... The discussion surrounding these two different listening frames of reference goes back to the board's inception.... Makes for interesting give and take both literally and figuratively.
The irony, for me, from this discussion is that the original album for my favorite film music delivered neither the film edit of the main title nor the composer's intended film main title.
Back in 1978, my young self, when listening to "Superman", the 2-LP, pondered why the album didn't have that quiet solo trumpet opening the curtains, or why the underscore for that "S" whooshing into frame was missing, or why most of the album's first cut sounded a lot like most of the album's last cut. (And where was the underscore for that helicopter rescue?) Decades later, the scales fell from my eyes with the FSM Blue Box book detailing, among other things, the sources of the editorially-created film edit of the main title and the composer's intended main title being repurposed for the film end title.
Thanks to FSM and then LLL, I have it all now ... with alternates! In this context, I can appreciate the OP wanting a similar super experience with his favorite films and film music without having to wait three or four decades. Back in the LP days, if there wasn't room for the composer's intended main title or The Helicopter Sequence, then there certainly wasn't going to be room for the "film edit" main title. Things are different now.
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