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 Posted:   Apr 23, 2024 - 10:08 PM   
 By:   KevinSmith   (Member)

From the Aliens Making Of DVD featurette, James had 2 beefs about the recording of the score:
1) The facilities at Abbey Road Studios were '30 years old'/'so behind the times' and not being able to produce the electronic/synthesized sounds that he wanted to incorporate in the score.

My comment: I'm surprised that Abbey Road Studios would not want to keep up its facilities in order to cater to customers' needs.

2) Eric Tomlinson, the music recording engineer 'who was brilliant in Star Wars', was 'completely out of his league with this type of movie which needed all the latest recording techniques'.

My comment: I think someone either on here or elsewhere once pointed out that the score was so poorly mixed that if you put headphones on, you would only get the strings in the left headphone and brass and percussion in the right headphone.

Curious on other people's thoughts?

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 5:55 AM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

I remember reading that Horner (who was still very young at the time) didn't enjoy Cameron's rude, obnoxious and overbearing attitude, coupled to the fact that lots of footage and editing was coming in very late and there were loads of 11th hour changes, which made Horner's task of writing and conducting/matching his music to the visuals almost impossible.
He said the producer (Gale Ann Hurd) sympathised with Horner's situation and it was a horrible experience.
Horner stated - around the time - that he would never work with James Cameron again.
I don't remember so much about the facilities of Abbey Road and the recording engineer being called in to question.
There is also the thing that Horner himself could be a bit of a drama queen and stand-offish, so maybe it was a 'pouring oil onto a fire' kind of situation.
The score came out fine in the end and supports the film like gangbusters, even if I think it's a very overrated Horner score personally and not the greatest standalone listen, outside of the rip-roaring highlights.

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 8:11 AM   
 By:   Trekfan   (Member)

1) The facilities at Abbey Road Studios were '30 years old'/'so behind the times' and not being able to produce the electronic/synthesized sounds that he wanted to incorporate in the score.

My comment: I'm surprised that Abbey Road Studios would not want to keep up its facilities in order to cater to customers' needs.


Chris Malone or someone a bit closer to the recording and equipment eras of Abbey Road (than I) might be able to comment further. Horner might've exaggerated a tad in that "Aliens" featurette a bit in terms of number of years old, etc. I believe Horner did say they were "barely able to patch in synthesizers", so patching directly into the mixing board vs. in-room microphone recording. Perhaps looking back under the stress and tension at the time and dealing with analog tape vs. digital as would be more common when the featurette interview was conducted made the memories seem that much more grim and the equipment more primitive in retrospect than it was.

Some notable equipment from Abbey Road's history:

EMI 'Redd' (Various iterations of it)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMI_REDD
https://musictech.com/reviews/emi-redd-series/

EMI 'TG12345' (Used 1970s to early 1980s when Abbey Road did upgrades)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMI_TG12345
https://djmag.com/tech/recording-desk-abbey-road-studios-sells-18-million


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_Road_Studios does point out a July to September 1983 mixing console upgrade.


As for Tomlinson, I believe he worked with Horner five times - "Uncommon Valor" (1983) recorded in the US, the "Brainstorm" album recording (recorded in September 1983), "The Dresser" (also recorded in September 1983), "Aliens" (recorded in April 1986), and "An American Tail" (recorded in June 1986 and one day (pickups I assume) in September 1986).

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 8:27 AM   
 By:   neumation   (Member)

On Twitter Gale Ann Hurd made a comment refuting Horner’s account. She said that he prioritized his next project over Aliens (presumably An American Tail?) and that was what created friction between him and James Cameron.

My guess is that the postproduction delays on Aliens resulted in him having less time to compose and he was contractually obligated to start preparing the pre-recordings for An American Tail. Aliens is one of the few scores absent in Horners collection at UCLA, so that makes me wonder if Grieg McRitchie sketched and orchestrated cues from Aliens.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 11:05 AM   
 By:   c8   (Member)

I can’t remember which group did the score study on Aliens but they showed off the manuscript and I believe said it was at the Library of Congress.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 11:25 AM   
 By:   neumation   (Member)

I can’t remember which group did the score study on Aliens but they showed off the manuscript and I believe said it was at the Library of Congress.

That manuscript wouldn’t show what Horner wrote as it’s only the orchestrations. The sketches are in the Fox Library at Jo Ann Kane and have not been inspected by researchers, to the best of my knowledge. The sketch would reveal what exactly Horner wrote. His sketches were occasionally blank.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 11:51 AM   
 By:   BrenKel   (Member)

I can’t remember which group did the score study on Aliens but they showed off the manuscript and I believe said it was at the Library of Congress.

That manuscript wouldn’t show what Horner wrote as it’s only the orchestrations. The sketches are in the Fox Library at Jo Ann Kane and have not been inspected by researchers, to the best of my knowledge. The sketch would reveal what exactly Horner wrote. His sketches were occasionally blank.


I am confused!
Is there a hint that JH didn’t write the score in full and McRitchie did?
Also when you say the sketches were blank what does that mean?

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 12:37 PM   
 By:   neumation   (Member)

I can’t remember which group did the score study on Aliens but they showed off the manuscript and I believe said it was at the Library of Congress.

That manuscript wouldn’t show what Horner wrote as it’s only the orchestrations. The sketches are in the Fox Library at Jo Ann Kane and have not been inspected by researchers, to the best of my knowledge. The sketch would reveal what exactly Horner wrote. His sketches were occasionally blank.


I am confused!
Is there a hint that JH didn’t write the score in full and McRitchie did?
Also when you say the sketches were blank what does that mean?


I’ve never personally inspected the Aliens sketches so I can’t make a claim about how much McRitchie wrote for that particular score. When I say Horners sketches were occasionally blank, I mean absolutely no notes on the page—sometimes, not always! The interview with JAC Redford on the Neumation Music site should clarify what that means. If Aliens was truly a dire situation, Horner may have put down as much as he has time to write and Greig filled in the rest.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 1:03 PM   
 By:   c8   (Member)

It’s fairly well known that Horner sketched directly to a full score, not some reduced line score. His process was to do the timings, block the scenes, get a sense of the chords, fill in moments where he wanted to have the music do something, then write around that. Horner preferred to do as much full orchestration as he could to explain the color of the music but, as deadlines came creeping along, he’d fill in less and less until he was reduced to providing verbal instructions. Horner always “wrote” the music but who got the notes on paper was up for grabs based on the movie or deadline. It’s my understanding that Braveheart is entirely in Horner’s hand as is most of The Mask of Zorro, for example. During the Apollo 13 score study Steve Branson showed what Horner gave him. The Main Title required barely any work since Horner fully orchestrated it. But Reentry and Splashdown was a full score with timings, chords, and a melody line. Horner provided detailed how then Bramson would take that and fill in the actual notes. It’s in the Windtalker liner notes that Randy Kerber took Horner’s own “text” and fit it to the movie after it was chopped up then Horner conducted the new sessions because Horner had moved on to The Four Feathers and was too busy to do it himself. Yet the music was still Horner’s; just in truncated or abridged form.

The interview with JAC Redford neumation mentioned is beyond outstanding a must read for those wanting to understand how Horner worked. Horner didn’t any less write his music than Jerry wrote his. They each had their own ways and tricks for dealing with looming deadlines (and Horner especially in the era of digital editing and film by committee)

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 1:20 PM   
 By:   BrenKel   (Member)

Thank you for that detailed answer. Have you got the link to JAC Radfords interview?

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 1:22 PM   
 By:   neumation   (Member)

It’s my understanding that Braveheart is entirely in Horner’s hand as is most of The Mask of Zorro, for example.

To clarify this point, the orchestrations of Braveheart are in the hand of an unknown individual but there are revised cues entirely orchestrated by Horner. I recall Mask of Zorro being 50/50 with Thomas Pasatieri.

A Beautiful Mind was almost entirely orchestrated by Horner.

The 90s is when he has to evolve different ways of sketching, per JACs comments. Some of those 1992-1999 scores were very “music by committee” (Horner and Associates), which is far more historically common than most people around these parts are aware of. There are passages in Sneakers that are just chord symbols and meter changes with no notes.

In terms of Aliens, I do suspect it was a case of lighter than usual sketches for much of the score, perhaps serval fully orchestrated pages then two staves for the rest of the cue to be fleshed out. It wouldn’t surprise me if Futile Escape was largely “military percussion, make it sound BIG,” which is how Horner often described what he wanted on those “blank” pages.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 1:28 PM   
 By:   c8   (Member)

Thanks for the clarification. The Rocketeer score study had people saying Zorro was mostly Horner and Braveheart was all Horner. But if you’ve seen the scores you’d know. Thanks again!

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 2:46 PM   
 By:   Sartoris   (Member)


2) Eric Tomlinson, the music recording engineer 'who was brilliant in Star Wars', was 'completely out of his league with this type of movie which needed all the latest recording techniques'.


Wasn't there such an issue with Jerry Goldsmith's SUPERGIRL, just two years earlier ?

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 2:53 PM   
 By:   Trekfan   (Member)

Thank you for that detailed answer. Have you got the link to JAC Radfords interview?

That is easily Google-able; search "Neumation JAC Redford" and the first hit will be it:
https://neumation-music.com/blogs/news/blog

A great read indeed.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 5:16 PM   
 By:   townerbarry   (Member)

James Horner was not a happy composer. There is a video out there where Horner bitched and moan on you tube of working conditions at Abbey Road ..how in one room was The Orchestra and in an another room was the engineers and recording booth.

What James Horner was going to write the score in London, But Cameron was not ready still filming..and Editor Ray Lovejoy was editing....with the constant changes that Director James Cameron and Producer Gail Ann Hurd did with editing and visual effects.

Horner complained that he was stuck in London for weeks without any film to record The LSO ..

Horner ragged on everyone.

https://youtu.be/oJDJq3K_leo?si=6gdgpvR13Z2o4sxk

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 5:18 PM   
 By:   Replicant8   (Member)

BTW -any thoughts on this??

ALIEN SOUNDTRACKS BOXSET – 8 X CD COMPLETE – LIMITED EDITION – JERRY GOLDSMITH
COLLECTOR'S EDITION, DELUXE EDITION, DIGIPAK, IMPORT, LIMITED EDITION


The complete Alien boxset comprising of 8 CD’s, 2xCD per movie, covering over 9 hours of music! This new pressing of all the scores from the Alien franchise dating from 1979 to 1997, Jerry Goldsmith, James Horner, Elliot Goldenthal & John Frizzell. This fabulous boxset includes every note scored for the franchise, along with Alternate cues, Extended cues & Re-Mixed tracks.
Each 2CD Digipak release comes with new artwork, a slipcase box is included to store & display this awesome collection. This is truly the Alien soundtracks definitive release ever! Limited Pressings
Track Listing

ALIEN (159:15) DISC ONE: (79:47) 01- Main Title (New) 02- Main Title (Original) 03- Hypersleep 04- Hypersleep (Alt) 05- The Landing 06- The Alien Ship 07- The Space Jockey 08- The Space Jockey (Alt) 09- The Passage 10- The Egg Chamber 11- Eggs or Something 12- The Egg Chamber (Alt) 13- The Lab 14- FaceHugger 15- Surgery 16- The Lab (Alt) 17- Eine Kleine Nachtmusik 18- Where is It? 19- Kane’s Death & Burial at Space 20- Unused Track 21- Seek & Destroy 22- Seek & Destroy (Alt) 23- Here Kitty, Kitty 24- Questioning Mother 25- Chasing The Alien (New) 26- Chasing The Alien (Original) 27- Fighting with Ash 28- Death of Parker and Lambert 29- The Last Survivors 30- Destruction System Activated Pt1 31- Scared Stiff 32- Destruction System Activated Pt2 33- Away From The Ship 34- Hidden Alien
DISC TWO: (79:28) 01- Final Confrontation 02- Final Log 03- End Titles (New) 04- End Titles (Original) 05- Main title – The Nostromo 06- Hypersleep 07- The Jockey #2 08- The Jockey #3 09- Dead a Long Time 10- The Egg 11- The Egg (alt) 12- Face hugger 13- Acid For Blood 14- The Air Duct 15- Unused Track 2 16- The Last Survivors 17- Breakaway & Signing off 18- You Are My Lucky Star 19- Main Title (Re-recording) 20- Hyper Sleep (Re-recording) 21- The Landing (Re-recording) 22- Breakaway (Re-recording) 23- The Droid (Re-recording) 24- The Door (Re-recording) 25- End Title (Re-recording) 26- Alien Suite

ALIENS (140:40) DISC ONE: (64:37) 01 – Main Titles 02 – Bad Dreams 03 – Dark Discovery / Newt’s Horror 04 – LV-426 05 – Combat Drop 06 – The Complex 07 – Atmosphere Station 08 – The Place is Dead / Med Lab 09 – The Unknown Newt 10 – Sub-Level 3 11 – Ripley’s Rescue 12 – Face-huggers 13 – Futile Escape 14 – Newt is Taken / The Elevator 15 – Going After Newt 16 – Finding The Queen 17 – Bishop’s Countdown 18 – Queen To Bishop 19 – Resolution And Hyperspace
DISC TWO: (76:03) 01 – Main Titles (Alternate) 02 – Bad Dreams (Take 2) 03 – Bad Dreams (Take 3) 04 – Dark Discovery (Alternate) 05 – Combat Drop (Take 2) 06 – Combat Drop (Take 3) 07 – Combat Drop (Take 4) 08 – LV-426 (Film Edit) 09 – Ripley’s Rescue (Alternate) 10 – Ripley’s Rescue (Percussion) 11 – Futile Escape (Alternate) 12 – Bishop’s Countdown (Alternate) 13 – Queen To Bishop (Alternate) 14 – Hyperspace 15 – Resolution And Hyperspace (Alternate) 16 – Main Title (Re-recording) 17 – Futile Escape (Re-recording) 18 – Bishop’s Countdown (Re-recording) 19 – Aliens SuitE






ALIEN 3 (127:00) DISC ONE: (62:23) 01-Twentieth Century Fox Fanfare 02-Main Title 03-Main Title Part 2 04-The Survivor Is A Woman 05-They Didn’t Survive 06-The Wreckage 07-The Dog 08-Morgue 09-Autopsy 10-Outbreak Of Cholera 11-The Cremation 12-Chow Down With The Boys 13-How Do You Like Your Haircut 14-First Attack 15-Appreciative Of Your Affections 16-That’s His Boot 17-A Mark, A Burn 18-Droid-Rape 19-Candles In The Wind 20-Bishop Turned On 21-The Dragon 22-You’re Going To Die Too 23-It’s A Long Sad Story 24-Clemens Dies 25-Andrew’s Sting 26-What Are We Going To Do 27-The Explosion 28-The Aftermath 29-I Have To Get To The Ship 30-The Beast Within DISC TWO: (64:37) 01-In The Basement 02-Alien’s Lair 03-It Won’t Kill Me 04-I’m Not One For Begging 05-This Was Her Idea 06-It’s Started 07-It’s Started Pt 2 08-More Bait And Chase 09-Trap The Alien-Dillon’s Deliverance 10-Gotcha 11-Hello I Must Be Going 12-You Can Still Have A Life 13-End Credits 14-Alien 3 Trailer Music 15-Lento (Re-Recording) 16-Adagio (Re-Recording) 17-Alien 3 Suite ALIEN RESURRECTION (139:46) DISC ONE: (66:42) 01 – Main Title (Original Version) 02 – Ripley Reborn 03 – Main Title (Film Version) 04 – Post-Op 05 – Quiete A Grip 06 – Her Majesty 07 – The Prophecy 08 – The Knife 09 – Docking The Betty 10 – Face-huggers 11 – A Little One-By-One 12 – After Hours On Deck 13 – A Fast Learner 14 – Call Finds Ripley 15 – Mess In The Mess Hall 16 – The Aliens Escape 17 – The Trap 18 – Evacuation 19 – Ripley’s Escape 20 – Wayward Weaponry 21 – Elgyn Killed 22 – The Appearance Of Ripley 23 – Sticking Together 24 – Santa Claus In A Wheelchair 25 – Where The Meat Is 26 – Small Talk 27 – Ripley Meets Her Clones 28 – “Kill Me” 29 – A Waste Of Ammo 30 – What’s Inside Purvis? 31 – No Backstroke 32 – They Swim…. 33 – The Auton 34 – The Chapel 35 – The Clone & The Robot 36 – The Abduction

DISC TWO: (73:04) 01 – Purvis Erupts 02 – The Newborn 03 – 100 Yards Dash 04 – Ripley’s Return 05 – Baby On Board 06 – The Battle With The Newborn 07 – “I’m A Stranger Here Myself” 08 – “I’m A Stranger Here Myself” (Alternate) 09 – Ripley’s Theme 10 – End Title 11 – Main Title (Alternate) 12 – Elgyn’s Death (Alternate) 13 – Alien Outbreak 14 – Ripley Meet Her Clones (Alternate) 15 – What’s Inside Purvis? (Alternate) 16 – They Swim… (Alternate) 17 – The Chapel (Alternate) 18 – The Abduction (Alternate) 19 – The Battle With The Newborn (Alternate) 20 – “Priva Son D’Ogni Conforto” 21 – Alien Resurrection Suite

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 5:39 PM   
 By:   JeffM   (Member)

BTW -any thoughts on this??

ALIEN SOUNDTRACKS BOXSET – 8 X CD COMPLETE – LIMITED EDITION – JERRY GOLDSMITH
COLLECTOR'S EDITION, DELUXE EDITION, DIGIPAK, IMPORT, LIMITED EDITION


You are 24 days too late for this kind of post

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 5:58 PM   
 By:   Replicant8   (Member)

BTW -any thoughts on this??

ALIEN SOUNDTRACKS BOXSET – 8 X CD COMPLETE – LIMITED EDITION – JERRY GOLDSMITH
COLLECTOR'S EDITION, DELUXE EDITION, DIGIPAK, IMPORT, LIMITED EDITION


You are 24 days too late for this kind of post



sorry - was there a post on this already??

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 5:59 PM   
 By:   Replicant8   (Member)

BTW -any thoughts on this??

ALIEN SOUNDTRACKS BOXSET – 8 X CD COMPLETE – LIMITED EDITION – JERRY GOLDSMITH
COLLECTOR'S EDITION, DELUXE EDITION, DIGIPAK, IMPORT, LIMITED EDITION


 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 6:59 PM   
 By:   c8   (Member)

I Googled it. Are we sure this isn't an unmentionable?

 
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