Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
 
 Posted:   Apr 22, 2024 - 4:55 PM   
 By:   roadshowfan   (Member)

Here is a sparkling HD print of the classic British action adventure film, but with dubbed identical main and end title music that sounds very Hollywood noir and is certainly not the Mischa Spoliansky original. Anyone know what film this has been lifted from?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN2fg4XC0Wg

 
 Posted:   Apr 22, 2024 - 5:18 PM   
 By:   Ny   (Member)

Unfortunately I can't answer your question, but many thanks for the link. I loved this film as a kid, saw it quite a few times, and this is indeed a fine transfer, which I will be watching in full.

 
 Posted:   Apr 22, 2024 - 11:26 PM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

Another YouTube bootlegger claiming films are public domain when they are nothing of the sort.

 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2024 - 1:58 AM   
 By:   Amer Zahid   (Member)

thanks!

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2024 - 4:58 PM   
 By:   roadshowfan   (Member)

The more I listen to the dubbed on main title the more confident I feel that it has been taken from a Universal film. The trumpets have a very '50s Universal sound somehow, so it could be Hans Salter or Heinz Roemheld. And yet there's a strong vibe of Victor Young in noir mode, or maybe Roy Webb? To confuse matters, the gentle guitar strumming right at the end suggests either the original setting was the West or possibly Mexico?

For some really odd reason Raw Wind In Eden keeps popping up in my head as a possibility, but sadly there's only the trailer on YT (and strangely the first music heard in it does sound very similiar):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8s_Mgyl3ec

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 3:50 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

Certainly hints of Rózsa in there.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 4:45 AM   
 By:   Rameau   (Member)

Yup, Rozsa is the the thought that came into my mind, with Roy Webb second.

It’s a great film, I’m old enough to have seen it at the cinema, & have the German Blu-ray, which looks very nice.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 8:33 AM   
 By:   roadshowfan   (Member)

Apart from the origin of the dubbed Main and End Title, the other question is what Blu Ray edition has this YT video been ripped from?

As the music is so immediately more Hollywood than Spoliansky's original opening, is this how it was redubbed for America when shown as Flame Over India?

The End Title reprise has been very clumsily inserted, by the way, and interrupts Spoliansky's scoring as well as some dialogue!

There is indeed a distinct Rozsa vibe to the music (I mistakenly said Victor Young in my first post), but I would have expected someone to have identified it by now if it was Mr. Rozsa. The more I play it back the more I love it, so I do hope it can be identified soon!

I've isolated the dubbed Main Title here if anyone wants it:

https://mega.nz/file/lPJwBAYB#jEbWQw8NP42-7ItcMAMMJPHnzBbB31tL2fUiKQHcF0A

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 10:42 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

I imagine that the YouTuber "Cinema4Real" dubbed that alternate music for their own interest. I've not seen any evidence that the shorter Flame Over India had an alternative and it doesn't seem to have ever been available on home video. I have the VCI Blu-ray which looks very good and is licensed from ITV Studios as is the French BD. I'm not sure of the legitimacy of the German release on Pidax because they are known for pirating material.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 3:57 PM   
 By:   roadshowfan   (Member)

Found it! After spending hours scouring the internet for Universal-International main titles I'm feeling rather pleased with myself for believing this was taken from a U-I western as here it is, with its proper intro:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5d4t03

This may not have been the first (or last) time it was used of course, but it would seem it was probably composed by Herman Stein. I think Doug is right that the NWF poster has dubbed this on to the video copy himself, for some bizarre reason. But having listened to the track over half a dozen times I do love this richly melodramatic style of Hollywood scoring.

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 4:09 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

BMI composer listing for Ride Clear of Diablo:

  • Herman Stein
  • Frank Skinner
  • Edward Ward
  • Hans J. Salter
  • Milton Rosen (also listed with Stein)

    ASCAP duplicates most of those, but also adds: Henry Mancini


    Probably a stock music job.

  •  
     
     Posted:   Apr 24, 2024 - 4:33 PM   
     By:   roadshowfan   (Member)

    Thanks for the composer info Justin. I wonder which one from that list composed the Main Title!

    If the NWF poster has indeed does his own bit of re-dudding, now that I've had the opportunity to compare the two, I can hear that the redub is actually a cut-and-paste edit of the Diablo main title, presumably to make it fit the NWF credits.

    Anyway, I've done an mp3 of the Ride Clear Of Diablo opening if there's anyone out there as sad as me who would like a copy:

    https://mega.nz/file/IeIjGa4K#v_fqbvW_1LSsX3-LnPgjO4TrkvDVTB59oHNjNyw5CUg

     
     
     Posted:   Apr 25, 2024 - 1:12 AM   
     By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

    I now have a feeling that the redubbed music may be by Herman Stein after all. It wasn't Rózsa enough to be Rózsa, but there was a definite leaning on him, as Stein later did to a certain extent in his (great) score to the (great) Corman film THE INTRUDER.

     
     
     Posted:   Apr 25, 2024 - 2:30 AM   
     By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

    I now have a feeling that the redubbed music may be by Herman Stein after all.

    The Main Title of RUN CLEAR OF DIABLO had indeed been composed by Stein as you can see it in his filmography:

    "RIDE CLEAR OF DIABLO (western)

    Stein (some track, incl. Main Title); Frederick Herbert & Arnold Hughes (song: “Wanted”); Milton Rosen; plus track by Hans Salter, Frank Skinner, Henry Mancini, Edward Ward."
    https://cinescores.dudaone.com/an-interview-with-herman-stein

     
     
     Posted:   Apr 25, 2024 - 2:02 PM   
     By:   roadshowfan   (Member)

    Many thanks to Stefan for confirming that the Main Title for Ride Clear Of Diablo is definitely by Herman Stein.

    Would you have anyway of knowing if this was the first time the piece was used, or if it was reused as a Main Title for any other Universal productions?

     
     
     Posted:   Apr 25, 2024 - 2:44 PM   
     By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

    Thinking one of the background guys who never took credit. Zador? Castelnuovo-Tedesco?

     
     
     Posted:   Apr 25, 2024 - 3:18 PM   
     By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

    Many thanks to Stefan for confirming that the Main Title for Ride Clear Of Diablo is definitely by Herman Stein.

    Would you have anyway of knowing if this was the first time the piece was used, or if it was reused as a Main Title for any other Universal productions?


    Maybe David Schecter - who knows everything about Herman Stein - has the cue sheeets for all the music tracks which appear in the movie and can even better answer your question, but I think that this piece was specially composed by Stein as Main Title for the Audie Murphy western. A few cues from former scores by Stein were apparently addtionally recycled, but he did also compose some original music for this film - and it seems that one of these new tracks was the Main Title.
    Also Clifford McCarty in his book "Film Composers in America" mentions that Stein composed new music for RIDE CLEAR OF DIABLO besides stock music. If only stock music by Stein had been used, then McCarty wouldn´t mention the film title in his book at all.

     
     
     Posted:   Apr 25, 2024 - 3:24 PM   
     By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

    Thinking one of the background guys who never took credit. Zador? Castelnuovo-Tedesco?

    No, it is neither Zador nor Castelnuovo-Tedesco. It has already been definitively cleared up that the music in that Main Title is by Herman Stein who worked on many Universal pictures at that time. The only question which remains is whether the music had been tracked from a Stein score witten for Universal one or two years previously (he worked for Universal only from 1951 onwards) or if it was orignal music by him composed especially for the western - in my opinion it is original music.

     
     
     Posted:   Apr 25, 2024 - 3:45 PM   
     By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

    All of Herman Stein´s manuscripts are at the University of Wyoming.
    There are not only manuscripts, but also many tapes for his scores:
    https://www.uwyo.edu/ahc/_files/pdffa/02863.pdf

    And - lo and behold - you can find there not only the manuscript (with 35 leaves), but even a reel-to-reel tape for RIDE CLEAR OF DIABLO!
    So these are the cues he wrote for that western in 1954 and which are also on that tape:

    - Main Title
    - Sheriff´s Niece
    - Clay Riding Toward Diablo
    - Clay And His Prisoner
    - Whitey Puts Clay Wise
    - Laurie Feels Insulted
    - Lauri, Forget Clay
    - Gun Fight
    - End Title
    - End Cast

     
     
     Posted:   Apr 25, 2024 - 4:22 PM   
     By:   roadshowfan   (Member)

    Thank you so much for all the additional information, Stefan. It's both fascinating and depressing to think all that material survives and yet will probably never see the light of day again.

    It's odd how a chance encounter with that print of North West Frontier on youtube led to my obsession with the dubbed on Main Title, which I'm now assuming must have been done by the poster for whatever reason and is not on any actual Blu Ray. I have grown to absolutely adore this music (and maybe the YT poster has too). It's a typically fine example of old Hollywood craftmanship, all 1 minute 20 seconds of it. In many ways it was wasted on a western as it would have made an apt and compelling prelude to a black-and-white noir thriller.

    If you find out more about this piece, Stefan, please carry on posting...

    In the meantime, I found a much better print of the film so here's the main title at the correct pitch (I think):

    https://mega.nz/file/kCwx1KaL#QFqscYJiYIk0sbnVIQvQKr4h2d6oPcJBUJJXwDBkyH8

     
    You must log in or register to post.
      Go to page:    
    © 2024 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved.
    Website maintained and powered by Veraprise and Matrimont.