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LOG IN Forgot Login? Register General Discussion • Trading Post • Non-Film Score Discussion  Profile • Preferences • Community Rules • Help/Contact • Search Board Search Terms:  Search Within:  topics posts since 2019 2018 posts 2017 posts 2016 posts 2015 posts 2014 posts 2013 posts 2012 posts 2011 posts 2010 posts 2009 posts 2008 posts 2007 posts 2006 posts 2005 posts 2004 posts 2003 posts 2002 posts 2001 posts 2000 posts users  search tips  You must log in or register to post.   Go to page:  1 2      General Discussion: Why only one score with the LSO?     1 2    NEXT   LAST   Last Post   Posted:   Aug 12, 2022 - 5:55 PM     By:   BrenKel   (Member) Following up on Kev’s LSO thread it got me thinking of all the top composers who got to score one film with the LSO and then never returned. Is there a reason for this? Was it a stipulation that the score be recorded with the LSO but usually the composers prefer LA or wherever? Or did the situation just not present itself again? The one of scores I can think of: Laurence Rosenthal - Clash of the Titans Leonard Rosenman - The Jazz Singer Alan Silvestri - Who Framed Roger Rabbit Henry Mancini - Lifeforce David Arnold - Last of the Dogmen Roy Budd - Wild Geese II David Shire - Return to Oz Basil Poledouris - Flesh & Blood Thomas Newman - Little Women Elmer Bernstein - Slipstream John Debney - Cutthroat Island Randy Edelman - The Mummy 3 I am sure there are more? Maybe theses composers did record with the LSO more and I just didn’t realise? It’s also fascinated me that Jerry Goldsmith didn’t record a film score with the LSO as the credited orchestra. The NPO was t just LSO players and I know he did re-recordings with the LSO and concerts.    Posted:   Aug 12, 2022 - 6:03 PM     By:   Leeward90   (Member) How much say does a composer have on the choice of orchestra / recording location? Genuinely interested.    Posted:   Aug 12, 2022 - 7:25 PM     By:   Trekfan   (Member) I am sure there are more? Maybe theses composers did record with the LSO more and I just didn’t realise? There's an excellent LSO discography in PDF here - if you weren't already aware of it - and you can search by some of those composer names (including a name index at the start): https://lso.co.uk/images/pdf/WebsiteDiscography2022a.pdf Landing page at: https://lso.co.uk/orchestra/history/discography.html    Posted:   Aug 12, 2022 - 9:47 PM     By:   EdG   (Member) How much say does a composer have on the choice of orchestra / recording location? Genuinely interested. It depends. In the UK if the production filmed there generally (though not always) the score was recorded there - I think there was a significant tax incentive to do so. That may no longer be true. Most of the scores listed above were produced in the UK. There were also scores that were re-recorded there for album release, like CAPRICORN ONE or THE FURY. That was generally a cost saving move for Hollywood-based productions because the cost of re-recording the soundtrack album in London was less than the re-use fees required by the American musicians union contract. However in lower budget productions the composer might be offered an "all inclusive" contract to provide the music score which allows him to spend as much or as little as desired on the orchestra. Goldsmith took advantage of that to record scores like HOOSIERS, RAMBO III and LIONHEART in Hungary. Others have recorded with outfits like the Grauke Symphony (at the time essentially a private session orchestra created by Kurt Graunke to record his music) for the same reason.    Posted:   Aug 13, 2022 - 1:25 AM     By:   The Shadow   (Member) deleted    Posted:   Aug 13, 2022 - 2:41 AM     By:   BrenKel   (Member) I was afraid me mentioning Jerry Goldsmith would derail the thread. Why didn’t he do more recordings with the LSO? He was in London a lot.    Posted:   Aug 13, 2022 - 2:44 AM     By:   BrenKel   (Member) I am sure there are more? Maybe theses composers did record with the LSO more and I just didn’t realise? There's an excellent LSO discography in PDF here - if you weren't already aware of it - and you can search by some of those composer names (including a name index at the start): https://lso.co.uk/images/pdf/WebsiteDiscography2022a.pdf Landing page at: https://lso.co.uk/orchestra/history/discography.html Thank you for this. Really interesting reading. I have learnt quite a lot but I didn’t know by reading this list but there are also quite a few mistakes. For example the list credits Bruce Broughton as having scored the boy who could fly with the LSO Rather than the Sinfonia of London. Another one is The Boys from Brazil When this was actually performed by the National Philharmonic Orchestra.    Posted:   Aug 13, 2022 - 3:26 AM     By:   Undecided Zebra   (Member) I was afraid me mentioning Jerry Goldsmith would derail the thread. Why didn’t he do more recordings with the LSO? He was in London a lot. Jerry Goldsmith had a very good relationship with Sidney sax the National philharmonic Orchestras former concert master and contractor, He was able to pick his musicians for his recordings and he regularly chose the same players from the pool available, also the National Philharmonic had more flexibility with regards to schedule, if you look at this page https://www.malonedigital.com/tomlinson.pdf you will see an interesting article about Eric Tomlinson and also the schedule of recording which went beyond midnight at times. I attended the Supergirl recording and Jerry Goldsmith appeared to know most of the musicians very well, he was often outside the church with them smoking and joking about during breaks.    Posted:   Aug 13, 2022 - 3:35 AM     By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member) 2. RAMBO III a lower budget production?? I am afraid not. IIRC, RAMBO III was even the most expensive movie ever made up to that time. Carolco wasn't exactly known for financial restraint.    Posted:   Aug 13, 2022 - 3:41 AM     By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member) I was afraid me mentioning Jerry Goldsmith would derail the thread. Why didn’t he do more recordings with the LSO? He was in London a lot. Jerry Goldsmith had a very good relationship with Sidney sax the National philharmonic Orchestras former concert master and contractor, He was able to pick his musicians Yeah, the quality of the National Philharmonic Orchestra was top, many musicians from the London Symphony Orchestra and also the London Philharmonic Orchestra, and the NPO was very flexible and a studio orchestra. Goldsmith probably recorded with the NPO for the same reason Sarde worked with the LSO so often: you have a relationship that works well and gets terrific results, so there is no need to change it.    Posted:   Aug 13, 2022 - 5:07 AM     By:   Trekfan   (Member) Thank you for this. Really interesting reading. I have learnt quite a lot but I didn’t know by reading this list but there are also quite a few mistakes. For example the list credits Bruce Broughton as having scored the boy who could fly with the LSO Rather than the Sinfonia of London. Another one is The Boys from Brazil When this was actually performed by the National Philharmonic Orchestra. I recommend you should scroll down (Control-F, but they're indexed by sequential number) to the detailed listing within the document rather than stop only in the first few pages quick/short index. For example, that "Boys from Brazil" listing is actually for the Telarc recording ( https://www.discogs.com/release/5533307-Goldsmith-London-Symphony-Orchestra-The-Film-Music-Of-Jerry-Goldsmith ) which was indeed LSO. Where available, the catalog numbers are at the bottom of the entry: >2063i TELARC [U.S.A.] Pr: Hein Dekker Eng: Bruce Botnick 19-21 Jan 2000 Abbey Road Studio 1 Jerry Goldsmith led by Janice Graham GOLDSMITH The Boys from Brazil Forever Young : love theme The Generals Rudy : theme The Russia House : theme CD: (Aug01) CD80433. SACD: (Aug01) SACD60433 And "The Boy Who Could Fly" is for this release, "The High and The Mighty: A Century of Flight" ( https://www.discogs.com/release/10584835-Various-The-High-and-the-Mighty-A-Century-of-Flight ): >2196 Paul Stilwell [U.S.A.] Pr: Paul Stilwell Eng: Jim Scheffler [a-n] 26-28 Jan & [mn] 22 Apr 2004 Abbey Road Studio 1 Richard Kaufman led by Carmine Lauri [a] BARRY Out of Africa : Flying over Africa [b ] E.BERNSTEIN Airplane! [c] BROUGHTON The Boy Who Could Fly [d] GOLDSMITH Star Trek, the Motion Picture : end titles [e] GOODWIN 633 Squadron [f] GOODWIN Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines [g] HOLDRIDGE The Tuskegee Airmen [h] MANCINI The Great Waldo Pepper March [i ] SAFAN The Last Starfighter [j] WALTON Spitfire Prelude and Fugue [k] WAXMAN The Spirit of St.Louis : Ireland [l] J.WILLIAMS E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial : Flying [m] SHYER A Century of Flight [n] TIOMKIN The High and the Mighty CD: [a-n] (Nov05) Varèse Sarabande 302 066 704.2; not released in UK    Posted:   Aug 14, 2022 - 8:48 AM     By:   Tall Guy   (Member) 1. Are you pretending that Jerry Goldsmith went to Budapest less expensive recording facilities and orchestra just to save money out of a deal package not in benefit of the producers but for his own benefit? This would be greedy… Not necessarily - wouldn’t Goldsmith have to pay the orchestrators?    Posted:   Aug 14, 2022 - 2:55 PM     By:   townerbarry   (Member) Following up on Kev’s LSO thread it got me thinking of all the top composers who got to score one film with the LSO and then never returned. Is there a reason for this? Was it a stipulation that the score be recorded with the LSO but usually the composers prefer LA or wherever? Or did the situation just not present itself again? The one of scores I can think of: Laurence Rosenthal - Clash of the Titans Leonard Rosenman - The Jazz Singer Alan Silvestri - Who Framed Roger Rabbit Henry Mancini - Lifeforce David Arnold - Last of the Dogmen Roy Budd - Wild Geese II David Shire - Return to Oz Basil Poledouris - Flesh & Blood Thomas Newman - Little Women Elmer Bernstein - Slipstream John Debney - Cutthroat Island Randy Edelman - The Mummy 3 I am sure there are more? Maybe theses composers did record with the LSO more and I just didn’t realise? It’s also fascinated me that Jerry Goldsmith didn’t record a film score with the LSO as the credited orchestra. The NPO was t just LSO players and I know he did re-recordings with the LSO and concerts. I was told about Who Framed Roger Rabbit, that Animator Richard Williams Didn’t want to leave his home in London and don’t want to not come to Los Angeles and work at Disney Burbank. All of the Animation was done at London. The majority of Who Filmed Roger Rabbit was filmed at Elstee Studios in London, England. And Producer Steven Spielberg and Director Robert Zemeckis brought out Composer Alan Silvestri to write the music as what parts of the film was completed and handed over as the finished product. The LSO had a difficult time at first trying to play Silvestri’s Jazz Music..as noted in the Liner Notes.    Posted:   Aug 14, 2022 - 2:59 PM     By:   Thgil   (Member) 2. RAMBO III a lower budget production?? I am afraid not. IIRC, RAMBO III was even the most expensive movie ever made up to that time. Carolco wasn't exactly known for financial restraint. If ever a big-budget movie was begging for a more capable orchestra, that was it.    Posted:   Aug 14, 2022 - 3:18 PM     By:   EdG   (Member) However in lower budget productions the composer might be offered an "all inclusive" contract to provide the music score which allows him to spend as much or as little as desired on the orchestra. Goldsmith took advantage of that to record scores like HOOSIERS, RAMBO III and LIONHEART in Hungary. Others have recorded with outfits like the Grauke Symphony (at the time essentially a private session orchestra created by Kurt Graunke to record his music) for the same reason. 1. Are you pretending that Jerry Goldsmith went to Budapest less expensive recording facilities and orchestra just to save money out of a deal package not in benefit of the producers but for his own benefit? This would be greedy but what evidence of this do you have to make such statements? We should ask to Mike Ross or Bruce Botnick. They must know the story. 2. RAMBO III a lower budget production?? I am afraid not. Ahem. I don't know who got you in a mood this morning but you're making some really wild assumptions there. Giving the composer some latitude in selecting the orchestra can be greatly to the producer's benefit. A producer's budget that might allow for 30-40 players in London might pay for 80-90 in Hungary. Goldsmith was a respected pro and wasn't going to shortchange a project for his own benefit obviously. He tended to work we people he knew and respected whenever he could. Moreover, Goldsmith could choose how much of the score to record with an orchestra and how much to record in studio with keyboards. He took on several projects with limited budgets and did electronic scores for them no doubt to help with budget issues. Goldsmith became adept at finding novel solutions to tight music budgets, especially as a composer who preferred orchestral scoring. Another benefit of giving the composer some say into the orchestra worked the other way: TOTAL RECALL, where the German orchestra originally scheduled was having difficulties and Goldsmith lobbied successfully to move the sessions to London. In this case the producers had a relationship with him and trusted him enough to spend more money. Now RAMBO III is remembered today as a bloated $40M extravaganza but it didn't start out that way and by the end of the process the film was wildly over budget and the producers were looking to economize in any way they could - hence Hungary, no doubt at Goldsmith's suggestion.    Posted:   Aug 14, 2022 - 9:02 PM     By:   The Shadow   (Member) deleted    Posted:   Aug 14, 2022 - 10:01 PM     By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member) I’m sorry but multiple people have it quite backwards here, at least in the case of Rambo III. It was not Goldsmith’s preference to record that third score in Hungary; it was the choice of his friend, the film’s producer Andy Vanja. Vanja was Hungarian and wanted to help get a film music recording industry going in Hungary. Mike Ross-Trevor, recording engineer for most of not all of Goldsmith’s sessions in Hungary, relayed this to me years ago: https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/1470520-odyssey-interviews-mike-ross-trevor Yavar    Posted:   Aug 15, 2022 - 3:29 AM     By:   Cameron007   (Member) I can't believe no one's mentioned Indiana Jones yet. IIRC, only Raiders was recorded with the LSO.    Posted:   Aug 15, 2022 - 3:55 AM     By:   The Shadow   (Member) deleted    Posted:   Aug 15, 2022 - 3:58 AM     By:   The Shadow   (Member) deleted     General Discussion: Why only one score with the LSO?    < 1 2  > >>  Go to page:  1 2   First Post    General Discussion • Trading Post • Non-Film Score Discussion  Profile • Preferences • Community Rules • Help/Contact • Search Board You must log in or register to post.   Go to page:  1 2

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