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 Posted:   Jul 10, 2024 - 7:15 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

While I am rooting for this film and things like it to succeed, this is not going to be the example of that. Firstly, it is a genre that historically underperforms in the box office. Despite us who will show up and show support. Second, the audience reaction hasn't been great for this one. Financially it had a 51% drop in ticket sales and didn't lose and theaters! It will probably leave theaters with a cume around $30 million. It is what it is, just like it was with Furiosa. The Cinemascore polling is a B- (you can pass high school with this but in the Cinemascore world this is not great). If the movie finds its audience (beyond our niche), it won't be in the theaters but at home. And WB/Discovery will see that as even more reason to keep it to a streaming release.

P.S. It's the same length as Oppenheimer. Which is a movie that is half black and white photography and about men sitting in rooms talking about scientific theory, building a big bomb, smoking tons of cigarettes, and then what happens when the political fallout reflects upon that. Not a great counterpoint argument.

 
 Posted:   Jul 10, 2024 - 9:04 PM   
 By:   BornOfAJackal   (Member)

It is apparent that the controversy around part one of Horizon: An American Saga is illuminating the building contradictions with present day Hollywood.

Hollywood's current identity crisis, a result of too much collaboration by too many levels of tampering, is working against the purported originality of all projects.

 
 Posted:   Jul 10, 2024 - 9:19 PM   
 By:   BornOfAJackal   (Member)

I think it's also important to keep in mind this project is, I think, intended to occupy a space for future programming in the theatrical exhibition space.

I've seen the theaters in SoCal experiment with every type of special and package screenings to get more people in seats. Horizon: An American Saga will fill that niche comfortably and lavishly. This is a needed tenpole western that has ambition and it should be finished properly.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 10, 2024 - 9:32 PM   
 By:   GoblinScore   (Member)


Hollywood's current identity crisis, a result of too much collaboration by too many levels of tampering, is working against the purported originality of all projects.


Jackal born, you couldn't be right....er.

Count the producers on Any film post 2020. Know that odds are high every one of those names had a say in creative and artistic choices, despite their background.

It's like me sitting in on a hip hop session with Tyler The Creator or Megan Thee Stallion (Jeebus, the pretentiousness of these people....) and calling out personal choices for more mixed meter, less N word, better (and affordable) samples, less bass in the mix....

When will artistic-free "producers" invade that sphere?!?!
And WTF IS a producer now???

The term has mutated, and I feel the parade of names now shown on a film, are akin to a Kickstarter movement.
Emma Stone sez "hey....gimme a Co-Exec Producer credit, cuz I....cuz....well I'm in this film".

"Cool, whatevs"

Seriously, check the post-20's films that include the star in an endless list of producers who really only get credit for either shearing the project at hand of any interest, sanitizing, or.....nothing.

 
 Posted:   Jul 10, 2024 - 10:03 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

Count the producers on Any film post 2020. Know that odds are high every one of those names had a say in creative and artistic choices, despite their background.

There is no way to know in any specific case, but it’s equally likely that those people drew from the budget for contributing absolutely nothing. Which is also not great.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 10, 2024 - 10:22 PM   
 By:   GoblinScore   (Member)

Count the producers on Any film post 2020. Know that odds are high every one of those names had a say in creative and artistic choices, despite their background.

There is no way to know in any specific case, but it’s equally likely that those people drew from the budget for contributing absolutely nothing. Which is also not great.


You are an insider Schiff, you would know better than I (P.S. it wasn't you. You're cool, I love your posts. There, you can now rest easily, Ha!).

As sanitized and generic as cinema is now, I cant help but think any of the two dozen producers now could have notes, and thanks to our snowflake culture....those notes, however deeply they may harm the art at hand.....will be heard and likely implemented.

Contribute a few bucks, great! But..."I have notes on the score. I don't like those live noisy drums (riffing on HORIZON'S apparently sampled percussion). I heard a Lil Wayne track last week that was straight fire! Can you maybe sample that track? Thx, muah!"

As always, WTF do I know - I'm going back to a Peckinpah/Fielding blu ray renaissance, y'all can keep floundering and hoping for anything memorable from.....all this now. Best of luck to you.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2024 - 1:14 AM   
 By:   Willgoldnewtonbarrygrusin   (Member)

While I am rooting for this film and things like it to succeed, this is not going to be the example of that. Firstly, it is a genre that historically underperforms in the box office. Despite us who will show up and show support. Second, the audience reaction hasn't been great for this one. Financially it had a 51% drop in ticket sales and didn't lose and theaters! It will probably leave theaters with a cume around $30 million. It is what it is, just like it was with Furiosa. The Cinemascore polling is a B- (you can pass high school with this but in the Cinemascore world this is not great). If the movie finds its audience (beyond our niche), it won't be in the theaters but at home. And WB/Discovery will see that as even more reason to keep it to a streaming release.

P.S. It's the same length as Oppenheimer. Which is a movie that is half black and white photography and about men sitting in rooms talking about scientific theory, building a big bomb, smoking tons of cigarettes, and then what happens when the political fallout reflects upon that. Not a great counterpoint argument.


Perfectly reasoned.

But I believe the box office drop was mainly due to the target audience rather waiting to see the film at home. And many cinemas only showed it on their smaller screens, so why bother going to those cinemas?

Let’s face it: cinema now is only an attraction for teens, twens and maybe thirtysomethings without a tight budget.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2024 - 1:58 AM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

I saw Mark Kermode (UK BBC Film Critic) say the MAJOR PROBLEM with the film is that it is basically THREE BEGINNINGS (one hour a-piece) and a short Coming Soon Reel and that, to him, was not good enough to justify spending 3 hours IN THE CINEMA. no matter how well played and produced it was.
I'm unlikely to see it on the Big Screen now, as it only had two showings a day on cinemas near me and neither aligned with my work/life balance.
It is what it is, but it looks like I'll end up viewing it the way most people are going to...ON THE TELLY.

 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2024 - 6:42 AM   
 By:   CindyLover   (Member)

https://deadline.com/2024/07/horizon-2-delayed-1236006327/

 
 Posted:   Jul 11, 2024 - 1:25 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

You are an insider Schiff, you would know better than I

The comedian Thomas F. Wilson (Biff from the Back to the Future movies) has a funny song he performs on stage about the questions people ask him wherever he goes, and his answers. One lyric goes like…

What does a key grip do?
Set up lights!
What does the best boy do?
Help the key grip!
What does a producer do?
I don’t know!

The thing is, unless you're privy to the production, a person credited as producer can do just about anything. Many do nothing. Some are powerful. Some are effective and make films better. Others meddle. I have a friend who's credited as a producer on at least two films he's never seen (he wrote the first in the series, so contractually he gets that credit on all future films – don't hate him, it's his negotiated reward for having done a good enough job on the first one that they made more, and he stays out of their way).

I happen to know one of the producers of Horizon (haven't seen him in a year or so, and haven't discussed it with him), but he's been in the trenches of many films for many years – some big hits, some notorious flops – so he's earned his say (if he had any – again, we haven't discussed). But I don't mean to be all rosy. There are certainly producers who hurt more than help!

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2024 - 1:44 AM   
 By:   DynoDux   (Member)

I saw Mark Kermode (UK BBC Film Critic) say the MAJOR PROBLEM with the film is that it is basically THREE BEGINNINGS (one hour a-piece) and a short Coming Soon Reel and that, to him, was not good enough to justify spending 3 hours IN THE CINEMA. no matter how well played and produced it was.

I'm unlikely to see it on the Big Screen now, as it only had two showings a day on cinemas near me and neither aligned with my work/life balance.

It is what it is, but it looks like I'll end up viewing it the way most people are going to...ON THE TELLY.


I saw it in the cinema and had a great time. Yes, the narrative is frustrating because nothing concludes, but if you can get over that there's plenty to enjoy! Can't wait for Chapter Two.

Debney's score is wonderful, a real throwback to full orchestral scores from the last century. The montage at the end is just heaven for any film score fan.

 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2024 - 3:51 AM   
 By:   Timothy J. Phlaps   (Member)

The thing is, unless you're privy to the production, a person credited as producer can do just about anything.

I did a crowdfunder for one of my films and I was chucking out associate producer credits like they were confetti at a wedding.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 12, 2024 - 8:13 PM   
 By:   Graham   (Member)

After one listen to this score, "Hayes Entrance" feels like a classic.

Graham

 
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