Bit weird that you can see everyone's been talking about Bear McCreary and Howard Shore teaming up on this since the rumor broke out last year but there hasn't been any sort of official confirmation til now
Bit weird that you can see everyone's been talking about Bear McCreary and Howard Shore teaming up on this since the rumor broke out last year but there hasn't been any sort of official confirmation til now
What confirmation? The Deadline article? That’s from September.
I would have thought confirmation from Doug Adams and Bear McCreary would be official enough…
Bit weird that you can see everyone's been talking about Bear McCreary and Howard Shore teaming up on this since the rumor broke out last year but there hasn't been any sort of official confirmation til now
What confirmation? The Deadline article? That’s from September.
I would have thought confirmation from Doug Adams and Bear McCreary would be official enough…
For this trailer, not digging the voice of the narrator which lacks the gravitas of Cate Blanchett's, and same for the music's orchestrations which have the typical Marvel-esque string ostinatos, heavy bass drops, and Zimmer horns with Media Ventures-quality synth choir...
I don't know who composed this trailer music but if Shore is involved I'd hope he be given the time and space to stick with his classical and operatic approach. He had a uniquely large amount of time to score the trilogy and it really shows in his original, detailed works.
The teaser didn't add much to talk about. But when I heard Shore was attached my anticipation of this series multiplied by 100. Especially excited to hear what the collaboration between Shore and McCreary will give us. Admittedly, though, I'm hoping for heavy involvement from Shore and not something similar to Williams' involvement in Solo, where just a couple of themes are provided.
He hasn't technically been confirmed yet which is interesting Bear has proven himself as capable of writing his own themes by now (but then again so are the other composers who have had similar arrangments) I feel like Howard Shore is capable of scoring it on his own (unless he wasn't interested in a full solo commitment by himself but they still wanted him attached to the project).
Ever since God of War, I have wondered what a Bear McCreary spin on LoTR would sound like, especially with his The Dragon cue.
I don't know if McCreary is still attached to the project or not but I'd much prefer if he wasn't. I find his style to be a bit too utilitarian. On the other hand, with a TV series, it might completely swamp Howard Shore so I could see how McCreary's utilitarianism might become useful for filling out some of the music. But, if that's the kind of needs this project has, that would already be hindering the music right out the gate.
I was both excited and troubled after viewing the teaser trailer that debuted yesterday. I won't get into the reasons here as to what bothered me. But I am still very excited that Shore is attached. I'm a fan of Bear's work as well, and wondering how much each composer will contribute. Even with a short episode run I imagine it will nearly be wall to wall music.
I don't know if McCreary is still attached to the project or not but I'd much prefer if he wasn't. I find his style to be a bit too utilitarian. On the other hand, with a TV series, it might completely swamp Howard Shore so I could see how McCreary's utilitarianism might become useful for filling out some of the music. But, if that's the kind of needs this project has, that would already be hindering the music right out the gate.
I'm a huge fan, but some of Howard Shore's own music for Middle Earth I would describe as "utilitarian"... particularly more pronounced in his last two Hobbit scores. I'm curious what sounds particularly more utilitarian about McCreary's music to you. Are you checking out work of his like Outlander, which would probably be more akin to what he'd do for this show (maybe sans bagpipes)?
I don't know if McCreary is still attached to the project or not but I'd much prefer if he wasn't. I find his style to be a bit too utilitarian. On the other hand, with a TV series, it might completely swamp Howard Shore so I could see how McCreary's utilitarianism might become useful for filling out some of the music. But, if that's the kind of needs this project has, that would already be hindering the music right out the gate.
I'm a huge fan, but some of Howard Shore's own music for Middle Earth I would describe as "utilitarian"... particularly more pronounced in his last two Hobbit scores. I'm curious what sounds particularly more utilitarian about McCreary's music to you. Are you checking out work of his like Outlander, which would probably be more akin to what he'd do for this show (maybe sans bagpipes)?
Yavar
This is a good question. Like I was saying, Shore can also run the risk of getting "swamped" which is what I felt happened for THE HOBBIT with all the ridiculous changes to the films (and I think the movies shouldn't have been stretched across 3 films nor do I think the story tone should have been as "epic" as was presented). Even in the original three movies, some music became a bit anonymous in the action scenes in ROTK that were probably edited to death. In that sense I imagined that the TV show format of this might work against what seems to bring the best out of Shore.
The LOTR movies were really unique in that he had a tremendously large amount of time to research, prepare and write the music. I would guess the episodic nature of the TV show could dampen his ability to write good music, but I think it's more about the CONTOUR of the music itself. The movies have a really good FLOW, and consequently the music has a really unique and skillful way of unfolding, building, progressing, resting - BREATHING.
So that's Shore.
For McCreary, I think he doesn't have quite a good sense of FLOW. I think part of it is confidence as a composer, and in many ways I think McCreary tries too hard, and the result is often overly-planned instrumentation and over-orchestration. In this case it's not that complex orchestration is bad, but more that I always get the impression it's compensating for an unclear focus.
On that note, a lot of what I hear in McCreary's music is very singular work cue-by-cue, and it might be because it's TV scoring - but I often find myself lost in his music many times with kind of generic or obvious choices, that punctuate a specific moment but don't tell a larger story.
I actually think his most effective work is in film, and as silly as it is, GODZILLA: KING OF THE MONSTERS I think is one of his best works. BUT, he's doing it based off of the original Godzilla theme and that giant sound, which gives him a sort-of-clear CONTOUR. At the same time though, that score for me still doesn't have the restraint that I would expect from a more experienced composer. There are times when the chanting and pounding percussion is overdone and where rhythmic constructs are extremely typical (the chugga chugga ostinatos that people on these boards complain about).
So I see the potential for those same bad habits to crop up with LOTR. If McCreary had scored Kazadum, I could see the vocals and percussion being extremely distracting - whereas Shore had a really nice balance between choir and orchestra. I could also see McCreary going completely overboard with musical choices - OUTLANDER I think gets a bit too bogged down with the loudness of the bagpipes and overreliance on the celtic sound. And I think that's a problem with his instrumentation - his choices tend to be unique and bold, but not quite integrated into the whole.
If you look at Shore's music for LOTR, it's extremely easy to say "ah yes, 'exotic' instruments - cimbalom, bodhrain, sarangi, rhaita, I will do the same thing and make bold statements" but Shore's use of different instruments for the different groups in Middle Earth wasn't heavy-handed - it's relatively light.
Same with the themes - it's very easy to look at Shore's music and treat every theme like a little button you press every time something applicable happens on-screen "The elves appear! Play the elven theme! Are those the rolling hills of the Shire? Cue the pennywhistle of the Shire theme!!!"
And actually that's kind of what happened in THE HOBBIT as well. My concern is McCreary would easily fall into that.
To sum up with CONTOUR/FLOW, here are two of the most enjoyable cues from FELLOWSHIP that to me demonstrate how skillful Shore is at telling a story over a sustained period of time that doesn't waste a note and develops constantly while still BREATHING (I don't my book with me so I'm not sure exactly how much of this music was composed to be continuous vs. receiving help from the music editor, but overall I think they're pretty close to what Shore does well). I don't hear this in pretty much any of McCreary's music at all. It's a very confident approach, and while in many moments there is very little going on musically, it's always moving the story and emotions forward, fluidly, methodically, building and twisting and churning to ramp up the story.
As much as LOTR has wonderfully strong themes and instrument choices, and as easy at it would be for a TV show to rely on pressing those buttons, I think it's this far more difficult and overlooked musical storytelling that matched the equally strong storytelling in the films that defined what made LOTR such a huge draw:
Same with the themes - it's very easy to look at Shore's music and treat every theme like a little button you press every time something applicable happens on-screen "The elves appear! Play the elven theme! Are those the rolling hills of the Shire? Cue the pennywhistle of the Shire theme!!!"
And actually that's kind of what happened in THE HOBBIT as well. My concern is McCreary would easily fall into that.
So your concern is that McCreary would fall into doing exactly what Shore fell into doing on the latter two Hobbit films, when he got spread out too thin (like butter on too much bread, eh?) on that ballooning project?
To sum up with CONTOUR/FLOW, here are two of the most enjoyable cues from FELLOWSHIP that to me demonstrate how skillful Shore is at telling a story over a sustained period of time that doesn't waste a note and develops constantly while still BREATHING (I don't my book with me so I'm not sure exactly how much of this music was composed to be continuous vs. receiving help from the music editor, but overall I think they're pretty close to what Shore does well). I don't hear this in pretty much any of McCreary's music at all.
I can hear this criticism when it comes to McCreary's film work, but I think some of his TV (and video game) work absolutely shows he can do this! Outlander might be the best example of all (though maybe you have to see the show to appreciate what's he's building there in context). But I like the Shore examples you provided, so allow me to provide a powerful example from McCreary's first Outlander album which I feel 100% shows his ability to tell a story over a sustained period of time without wasting a note, developing constantly while still breathing... to me this is practically on the level of The Breaking of the Fellowship, and it's utterly incredible in context too. It's the perfect thing that illustrates why McCreary is a perfect choice to collaborate with Shore on this, IMO:
The way McCreary lets everything flow while also developing his main theme, Frank theme, Druid theme, etc. throughout, for the great culmination of the mid-first season finale of the series... it's just a masterclass and IMO above anything he's done for film.
Uhh… can we just go with the fact that McCreary isn't as accomplished a composer as Shore is and leave it at that?
When it comes to actually scoring long-form narrative TV series, he's actually far more accomplished than Shore. Does anyone here actually expect 75 year old multiple Oscar-winner Howard Shore to compose all the music for a FIVE SEASON TV SERIES?
Who else better to collaborate with him on such a monumental project, than McCreary?
