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LOG IN Forgot Login? Register General Discussion • Trading Post • Non-Film Score Discussion  Profile • Preferences • Community Rules • Help/Contact • Search Board Search Terms:  Search Within:  topics posts since 2019 2018 posts 2017 posts 2016 posts 2015 posts 2014 posts 2013 posts 2012 posts 2011 posts 2010 posts 2009 posts 2008 posts 2007 posts 2006 posts 2005 posts 2004 posts 2003 posts 2002 posts 2001 posts 2000 posts users  search tips  You must log in or register to post.   Go to page:  1 2 3      General Discussion: Review of the QR-recording of "Endless Night"     1 2 3    NEXT   LAST   Last Post   Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 4:53 AM     By:   Graham Watt   (Member) 48 pages Markus! I look forward to reading what you have to say about ENDLESS NIGHT, but you'll have to give me time. I did look at the first few pages though, and I understand that you are critical towards it, as Bill Wrobel has been. I won't be in the position to comment much more until I read your entire article. But it's a good excuse for me to repeat once more that I think ENDLESS NIGHT is an absolutely splendid re-recording. Even if it does deviate from Herrmann's score (I'm not sure by how much), I feel that it still captures the spirit of the composer to perfection. The only negative reaction I had was the occasionally TOO odd-sounding Moog. I mean, it's quite odd in the film (though thankfully used sparingly), but here it has moments of complete wackiness. Anyway, I shall say no more until I've read your article. There are a few cases of my hearing something as "completely right" when others hear it as somewhat off. And there are also some instances of my hearing something as being "completely off" when others have almost universally praised it.    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 5:22 AM     By:   TerraEpon   (Member) I suppose the OP didn't read the liner notes, unless they actually have access to the official score from the publisher instead of the written one that people share online? Because it's specifically called out in the liner notes. So any "facts about deviation from the written score" can't be taken in good faith here.    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 5:58 AM     By:   waxmanman35   (Member) I suppose the OP didn't read the liner notes, unless they actually have access to the official score from the publisher instead of the written one that people share online? Because it's specifically called out in the liner notes. So any "facts about deviation from the written score" can't be taken in good faith here. Meltzer compares the recording to Herrmann's manuscript. What does that have to do with the liner notes?    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 6:58 AM     By:   .   (Member) Mr Meltzer says people shouldn't blame the news anchor for forecasting bad weather. But seems to me Mr Meltzer isn't the news anchor. Rather, he's the bad weather.    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 7:28 AM     By:   Last Child   (Member) Meltzer compares the recording to Herrmann's manuscript. What does that have to do with the liner notes? Mr Meltzer says people shouldn't blame the news anchor for forecasting bad weather. But seems to me Mr Meltzer isn't the news anchor. Rather, he's the bad weather. It's spelled Metzler.    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 7:43 AM     By:   Erik Woods   (Member) Meltzer compares the recording to Herrmann's manuscript. What does that have to do with the liner notes? Are you sure about that or are Metzler's comparisons based on Bill Wrobel's handwritten transcriptions, which could for all intents and purposes been copied incorrectly? -Erik-    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 7:56 AM     By:   .   (Member) It's spelled Metzler. Meltzer, Metzler... either way, sounds like a role for Anton Diffring.    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 7:57 AM     By:   waxmanman35   (Member) Meltzer compares the recording to Herrmann's manuscript. What does that have to do with the liner notes? Are you sure about that or are Metzler's comparisons based on Bill Wrobel's handwritten transcriptions, which could for all intents and purposes been copied incorrectly? -Erik- That's quite possible. But Metzler is a composer and in his critique he offers a rationale for what he perceives as possible errors based on music theory. It is a critique, an opinion, and no one is forced to agree with it or even read it. I read criticisms I don't agree with without feeling as if they are some type of sacrilege because they don't align with my feelings.    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 8:11 AM     By:   Erik Woods   (Member) That's quite possible. But Metzler is a composer and in his critique he offers a rationale for what he perceives as possible errors based on music theory. It is a critique, an opinion, and no one is forced to agree with it or even read it. I read criticisms I don't agree with without feeling as if they are some type of sacrilege because they don't align with my feelings. I don't disagree but I would take the critique with a bit of a grain of salt if he's referring to a hand-copied transcript that can't be confirmed to be correct either. BTW, did Matzler just outright quit FSM a few moments ago? Where's the link to the review and what happened to his profile? Looks like someone couldn't handle the heat himself. Anyway, here's the link to the review since it's now missing. https://archive.org/details/endless-night-quartet-records-cd-review-metzler-finale-1-1/mode/2up -Erik-    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 8:18 AM     By:   Advise & Consent   (Member) BTW, did Matzler just outright quit FSM a few moments ago? Where's the link to the review and what happened to his profile? Canceled, rather than quit, perhaps?    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 8:24 AM     By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member) Are you sure about that or are Metzler's comparisons based on Bill Wrobel's handwritten transcriptions, which could for all intents and purposes been copied incorrectly? -Erik- Erik, it's the latter. Quartet worked from Herrmann's manuscripts, and I have it on good authority from people who could compare the critical videos with Herrmann's score that it's Bill's transcriptions that are wrong. I also have it on good authority that these supposedly missing bars were emphatically crossed out by Herrmann. I can only guess Bill copied the crossed out bars and thought they were meant to be there when they aren't. Basically, all this nastiness towards Quartet's release is based on a dubious reference point. Cheers    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 8:28 AM     By:   Erik Woods   (Member) Thanks for the info, Stephen. I think we might have all discussed this on one of the Zoom calls, but it's good to know that there is some sort of confirmation that what Wrobel copied is incorrect. Yet, for some reason, the nastiness continues in Metzler's exhaustive 48 page "review." -Erik-    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 8:37 AM     By:   Last Child   (Member) BTW, did Matzler just outright quit FSM a few moments ago? Where's the link to the review and what happened to his profile? Looks like someone couldn't handle the heat himself. Anyway, here's the link to the review since it's now missing. https://archive.org/details/endless-night-quartet-records-cd-review-metzler-finale-1-1/mode/2up -Erik- Muy mysterioso. Maybe he didn't like his name continually misspelled.    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 10:01 AM     By:   orbital   (Member) Erik, it's the latter. Quartet worked from Herrmann's manuscripts, and I have it on good authority from people who could compare the critical videos with Herrmann's score that it's Bill's transcriptions that are wrong. I also have it on good authority that these supposedly missing bars were emphatically crossed out by Herrmann. I can only guess Bill copied the crossed out bars and thought they were meant to be there when they aren't. Basically, all this nastiness towards Quartet's release is based on a dubious reference point. Cheers Thanks, Stephen. (Very) good to know. Gotta say quite a performance from my fellow countryman (I guess, based on the name). Metzler registered today, dropped his 48-page-(!)-opinion (lol?) and vanished into thin air... well.    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 10:23 AM     By:   .   (Member) How appropriate! After seeing his butchering of the Endless Night performance, I googled the meaning of the name "Metzler" and this is what I found: "Metzler is an occupational name, which was derived from the kind of work done by the original bearer. It is a name for a butcher. The surname Metzler is derived from the German word metzger, which means butcher".    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 10:36 AM     By:   orbital   (Member) How appropriate! After seeing his butchering of the Endless Night performance, I googled the meaning of the name "Metzler" and this is what I found: "Metzler is an occupational name, which was derived from the kind of work done by the original bearer. It is a name for a butcher. The surname Metzler is derived from the German word metzger, which means butcher". Yes. The more precise translation of his name would be Marcus Slaughterer.    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 11:41 AM     By:   Advise & Consent   (Member) Gotta say quite a performance from my fellow countryman (I guess, based on the name). Metzler registered today, dropped his 48-page-(!)-opinion (lol?) and vanished into thin air... well. Is it just me, or does it seem that Mr. Metzler was "disappeared" from the board? Normally, there would be a blank space where his post was, but there is none. Vanished! In any case, I don't know why some posters resorted - by default - to personal attacks against this fellow. Granted, a 48 page "review" may seem odd, and he may have had an agenda against Quartet, but I would have been curious to hear the arguments about Endless Night (which I purchased three copies of) pro AND con.    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 2:40 PM     By:   Graham Watt   (Member) A n' C - You can still read it by clicking on the link which Erik Woods posted, and which Last Child referred to. I must admit I've kind of lost my desire to read it after the interest I showed initially - in what is now the opening post of the thread. I thought it was unrelated to the Bill Wrobel stuff but it appears to go hand in hand with it, from what I glean. I'm just going to listen to the CD again and be (almost) thoroughly impressed.    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 3:39 PM     By:   John Black   (Member) It does seem as though an agenda is afoot I still love the new CD, no matter what these "experts" say. We're all entitled to our opinions, after all.    Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 6:26 PM     By:   Amer Zahid   (Member) Just remember, he was the one who had pleaded to Quartet via Bill Wrobell to actually supervise and conduct the recording himself !!!     General Discussion: Review of the QR-recording of "Endless Night"    < 1 2 3  > >>  Go to page:  1 2 3   First Post    General Discussion • Trading Post • Non-Film Score Discussion  Profile • Preferences • Community Rules • Help/Contact • Search Board You must log in or register to post.   Go to page:  1 2 3

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