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 Posted:   Dec 16, 2020 - 11:37 PM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

I just got this notice from SHOPIFY regarding selling products into the UK from the USA.

I'm also told that this will be happening in the EU as well in the very near future.

You might want to have a look at it because if you buy CDS from the USA, the price isn't going to be as cheap as it has been based on this.

Also I've heard that some companies might not sell to either folks in the EU or UK due to this.

2021 is starting off already to be so much fun.....


Ford A. Thaxton



Starting January 1, 2021, businesses selling to and from the UK will be subject to new regulations, customs, and duties because of the UK’s exit from the EU. Make sure your company complies with the new laws to avoid products getting delayed at customs, unhappy customers, and potential fines.

Here are a few things you need to consider if you are selling to the UK:

Register for UK VAT: You will need to register for UK VAT and collect VAT on orders below ?135. If you are unsure how VAT rules impact your business, contact HM Revenue & Customs or a local tax professional.

Update tax settings in Shopify: To start collecting VAT in the UK, you’ll have to add your tax information in Shopify.

Add VAT registration for UK
Apply for EORI: You should apply for an Economic Registration and Identification (EORI) number if you don’t have one already. This unique ID code is used to identify your business in customs documents. Get your EORI number by registering with HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC).

Review customs documentation: You may have to provide necessary customs documentation to avoid delays and make sure your customers get their orders on time. Customs documents may include your EORI number, VAT amount collected on shipment, VAT registration ID, and other details like harmonized system (HS) code, product description, country of origin, and value of each product in the shipment. For more information, work with your shipping carriers to understand what additional documents are required while shipping to the UK or the EU.

We’ll provide you with more information on the blog in the coming weeks. In the meantime, learn more about how Brexit may affect your business.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 12:44 AM   
 By:   CindyLover   (Member)

mad

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 1:08 AM   
 By:   Timothy J. Phlaps   (Member)

Last Music Box e-mail I got said "Due to Brexit, all shipments to the UK have now an extra delivery charge." And then there's gonna be customs and Royal Mail fees on top of that.

But hey, at least we can keep all the fish that we usually export, so that's fantastic.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 1:08 AM   
 By:   Mark   (Member)



Why would 'folks' in the US not sell to countries in the EU because of this? Surely it only affects sales to UK?

I think a lot of us UK based collectors are more concerned with how Brexit will affect purchases from other EU countries, not the USA.
Vat charges already apply to imports from the USA and this, alongside the ridiculous postal charges from USA make purchases for UK customers extremely prohibitive already.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 1:09 AM   
 By:   Martin B.   (Member)

Yes, this is something the EU came up with a while back and the UK has decided to keep it after Brexit. Europe had been pushing for the removal of the low-value VAT exempt rules for years.

I am sure I read somewhere that it's introduction had been delayed by 6 months but yes, it is a Europe wide policy which was coming anyway, and not something that has come about due to Brexit.

To be honest, I have no problem paying VAT on imported goods. My biggest gripe has always been the Royal Mail "handling" charge which is highly disproportionate.

In theory, if the company you purchase from collects the VAT at point of sale - yes you'll pay whatever VAT charge is appropriate but it's then fully declared on the package and there will be no additional charges.

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 1:14 AM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

I'm afraid, Ford, that we in the UK have been living with these new plans for some time now ... only it's not been possible to identify exactly what will happen other than we should expect our purchase costs to increase.

I'm not sure if the GBP135 limit is specifically Brexit-related or whether it's simply been caught up in all the changes but the main idea is that the old GBP15 limit (under which packages received from abroad will not be subject to import duty and VAT) will be (or indeed, has been) removed and now any overseas seller is liable to account for UK VAT (and presumably duty) on goods shipped to the UK.

I've posted a few threads about this during the last 12 months. The issue re: Brexit, if there is no-deal, is that extra costs will arise for goods imported from the EU after 31 Dec, whereas, at present, no such additional costs arise.

Certainly, I see non-European businesses losing some of their market in the short-term. Longer, I imagine there will be a move back to how it used to be ... UK based businesses will import (and deal with the formalities and costs) with the aim of selling to the general public. So after all these Internet years of cutting out the middle-man, we'll be going back to how it was.

But as I've said before: that's what we Brits voted for ... smile
Mitch

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 1:50 AM   
 By:   slint   (Member)

But as I've said before: that's what we Brits voted for ... smile

No one has voted for this "no deal" total non-sense.

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 5:24 AM   
 By:   panphoto   (Member)

Certainly, I see non-European businesses losing some of their market in the short-term. Longer, I imagine there will be a move back to how it used to be ... UK based businesses will import (and deal with the formalities and costs) with the aim of selling to the general public. So after all these Internet years of cutting out the middle-man, we'll be going back to how it was.


We've been having this strain of blithe Brexiter optimism for the past 4 years. The people who promised us this 'easiest deal in history' have since displayed a leviathan deficit of competence in many functional aspects of government and an airy indifference to the lies that plunged us into this mess.


But as I've said before: that's what we Brits voted for ... smile
Mitch


No one has voted for this "no deal" total non-sense.


Quite so, I imagine that those who are unaffected by this state of affairs will continue to take their trophy open-tops for an alpine spin, with complete disregard to the notion that steady interdependence in economics, as in the natural world, provides greater stability and prosperity for the generality than does capitalist individualism.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 5:29 AM   
 By:   Martin B.   (Member)

As I previously mentioned though, this change has nothing to do with Brexit. It was coming regardless.

The only thing the UK government could have done was to say that after 1 Jan they wouldn't implement this. Instead, this is one area that they have chosen follow the EU.

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 8:56 AM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

As I previously mentioned though, this change has nothing to do with Brexit. It was coming regardless.

The only thing the UK government could have done was to say that after 1 Jan they wouldn't implement this. Instead, this is one area that they have chosen follow the EU.


Maybe you know, but the opening line of SHOPIFY's statement appears to state otherwise: Starting January 1, 2021, businesses selling to and from the UK will be subject to new regulations, customs, and duties because of the UK’s exit from the EU.

I struggle with legal text but this HMRC webpage does set out relevant changes and, as far as I can see, makes no reference to this being an EU-wide change: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021

specifically:
For goods that are located overseas at the point of sale, the new arrangements will apply irrespective of where the OMP [Online marketplace] or the business selling the goods is established.

This means that the following types of businesses will have to register for UK VAT (if not already registered) and account for VAT to HMRC:

-any business that operates an OMP that facilitates sales of goods to UK customers
-any business that sells goods directly (without OMP involvement) to UK customers where the goods are (a) outside UK at the point of sale (b) imported to the UK in consignments not exceeding £135 in value
Businesses established outside the UK and selling goods to UK customers where the goods are already in the UK at the point of sale are liable for UK VAT on those sales under existing rules. Such businesses should already be VAT registered.

and further (relevant to UK acquisitions (imports) from the EU post 31 Dec):
Who should register for VAT
OMPs must register for UK VAT in order to account for VAT on their deemed supplies, with effect from 1 January 2021.

You will also need to register if you sell goods directly (without using an OMP to facilitate your sales) to UK consumers and the goods are outside the UK at the point of sale. From 1 January 2021 the distance selling threshold for sales from EU member states will no longer apply. There is no VAT registration threshold for businesses established outside the UK so you will be required to register for VAT on any value of sales where you become liable for VAT under these new measures.

As far as I can tell, all of our non-UK sources of CDs, etc. will be caught by these measures.
I make no comment on the Brexit pros/cons as I know this could be construed as political, but merely set-out what I understand the position will be.
Mitch

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 10:04 AM   
 By:   King Solium   (Member)

Brexit is the most important meal of the day. That's how you say it in the UK, right?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 10:37 AM   
 By:   Martin B.   (Member)

A bit more detail can be found in the below

https://www.avalara.com/vatlive/en/vat-news/eu-2021-ending--22-import-exemption--import-oss-returns.html

Basically from 1st July 2021 any company shipping into Europe will have to register for an IOSS number and collect the VAT at the point of sale.
This was originally intended come into force on 1 Jan 2021 Europe Wide. The EU have since delayed it's introduction until 1st July. I guess the UK kept the original date since it tied into Brexit and to prevent any confusion (or more confusion)

I'm not sure how this would relate to additional shipping costs as it shouldn't involve couriers/postal services. The seller collects the VAT, fills in the correct form/label on the parcel and hands it to the carrier. The carrier doesn't have to do anything addition other than deliver it. If anything it should avoid the horrid "You have a customs charge to pay" card coming through your letterbox instead of the parcel.
It could be an additional cost for the seller (in time/paperwork if nothing else) but I don't think there is a direct cost to this. Others may know more on that subject.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 10:49 AM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

Brexit is the most important meal of the day. That's how you say it in the UK, right?

Know what? Brexit to me is a non starter. Could never eat first thing in a morning. Could never stand anything to eat until midday.

Still true today. And lunchtime is dragging on so much that when it comes to the UK/Europe but I bet you yanks will always lump us in with the actual continent we're not part of (Except by that bloody tunnel!!, who's stupid idea was that??). There is a sea gap. Maybe not as big as you lot and Hawaii but it's there. And definitely not as big as the US and Alaska I ask ya.

And please don't bring the Falklands into it.... zzzzz.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 11:28 AM   
 By:   Niall from Ireland   (Member)

I just got this notice from SHOPIFY regarding selling products into the UK from the USA.

I'm also told that this will be happening in the EU as well in the very near future.

You might want to have a look at it because if you buy CDS from the USA, the price isn't going to be as cheap as it has been based on this.

Also I've heard that some companies might not sell to either folks in the EU or UK due to this.

2021 is starting off already to be so much fun.....


Ford A. Thaxton



Starting January 1, 2021, businesses selling to and from the UK will be subject to new regulations, customs, and duties because of the UK’s exit from the EU. Make sure your company complies with the new laws to avoid products getting delayed at customs, unhappy customers, and potential fines.

Here are a few things you need to consider if you are selling to the UK:

Register for UK VAT: You will need to register for UK VAT and collect VAT on orders below ?135. If you are unsure how VAT rules impact your business, contact HM Revenue & Customs or a local tax professional.

Update tax settings in Shopify: To start collecting VAT in the UK, you’ll have to add your tax information in Shopify.

Add VAT registration for UK
Apply for EORI: You should apply for an Economic Registration and Identification (EORI) number if you don’t have one already. This unique ID code is used to identify your business in customs documents. Get your EORI number by registering with HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC).

Review customs documentation: You may have to provide necessary customs documentation to avoid delays and make sure your customers get their orders on time. Customs documents may include your EORI number, VAT amount collected on shipment, VAT registration ID, and other details like harmonized system (HS) code, product description, country of origin, and value of each product in the shipment. For more information, work with your shipping carriers to understand what additional documents are required while shipping to the UK or the EU.

We’ll provide you with more information on the blog in the coming weeks. In the meantime, learn more about how Brexit may affect your business.


Thanks for bringing all this to our attention Ford. It's very worrying but we will have to face up to it and try to overcome the problems somehow. But, fore-warned is definitely fore-armed, and you did well in alerting us.

 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 3:05 PM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

A bit more detail can be found in the below

https://www.avalara.com/vatlive/en/vat-news/eu-2021-ending--22-import-exemption--import-oss-returns.html

Basically from 1st July 2021 any company shipping into Europe will have to register for an IOSS number and collect the VAT at the point of sale.
This was originally intended come into force on 1 Jan 2021 Europe Wide. The EU have since delayed it's introduction until 1st July. I guess the UK kept the original date since it tied into Brexit and to prevent any confusion (or more confusion)

I'm not sure how this would relate to additional shipping costs as it shouldn't involve couriers/postal services. The seller collects the VAT, fills in the correct form/label on the parcel and hands it to the carrier. The carrier doesn't have to do anything addition other than deliver it. If anything it should avoid the horrid "You have a customs charge to pay" card coming through your letterbox instead of the parcel.
It could be an additional cost for the seller (in time/paperwork if nothing else) but I don't think there is a direct cost to this. Others may know more on that subject.


I didn't know the part about the EU delaying introduction of this change until 01 Jul ... thank you for that.

But where does your comment ... The seller collects the VAT, fills in the correct form/label on the parcel and hands it to the carrier. The carrier doesn't have to do anything addition other than deliver it.... comply with the HMRC requirement that the seller (or its agent - such as an OMP) has to register for VAT. The bureaucracy involved for small independent non-UK sellers will force them to use agents and add to the costs.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 3:16 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Quite so, I imagine that those who are unaffected by this state of affairs will continue to take their trophy open-tops for an alpine spin, with complete disregard to the notion that steady interdependence in economics, as in the natural world, provides greater stability and prosperity for the generality than does capitalist individualism.

Uh, duh, wha?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 3:45 PM   
 By:   bagby   (Member)

So, the solution is to upload audio files and the PDF files into a European manufacturer to actually press the discs and run the booklets and avoid all the shipping costs, customs, etc. Same could happen from EU or UK into the US.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 3:46 PM   
 By:   Simon Underwood   (Member)

Yeah, I heard about this several months ago, but for some reason even UK journalists working for the Times and FT didn't know until William Shatner recently tweeted that the inane way the UK government is ordering this to work will likely cost him too much and make administation a nightmare, so he'll just stop selling merch to the UK.

I did figure it would probably impact on us, with even the best case meaning our costs will go up, and worst case being LLL, Intrada etc will say it's not worth the hassle selling to the UK now.

I'm so fed up with this stupid country, our Z Team government of openly corrupt incompetents and any mention of the word "sovereignity". I've never seen a country inflict more harm on itself with so little common sense.

I did orders from Intrada and LLL (and some stuff from Japan via Discogs) a week ago, figuring they may be my last orders for quite a while.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 17, 2020 - 3:48 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

So, the solution is to upload audio files and the PDF files into a European manufacturer to actually press the discs and run the booklets and avoid all the shipping costs, customs, etc. Same could happen from EU or UK into the US.

Still have Sales Tax aka VAT, which the seller has to deal with. Ebay already does this so the sellers don't have to.

 
 Posted:   Dec 18, 2020 - 2:25 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

Amazon have been informing sellers for many months now that from 1 January 2021 they (Amazon) will be responsible for collecting VAT (20% at present in UK) and passing the amount to the UK tax authorities. Sellers should therefore allow for the VAT deduction from the advertised selling price and adjust their selling price accordingly.

 
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