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 Posted:   Aug 2, 2020 - 4:42 PM   
 By:   Totoro   (Member)



If you ever wonder how Star Wars would sound with a score by Ennio Morricone, wonder no more!
Just watch The Humanoid, a italian cheesy copy of George Lucas epic!

Probaly one of the most funny trash movies of all times, The Humanoid is pure gold and Morricone's score is in my opinion one of his most ludicrously funny ones.
I am not saying the music is bad, but is just... wrong!

Saw The Humanoid back in theaters in 1979 and loved! Even recorded myself huming the main theme in a tape recorder after. Years later was able to see it again on TV and finally discovered that Morricone himself composed the music!
When I finally got the soundtrack album it made me cry.

But don't take my words. Just see it for yourself...



I am probably the only person on Earth that likes it.


Director Aldo Lado and Morricone

 
 Posted:   Aug 2, 2020 - 5:35 PM   
 By:   Totoro   (Member)







 
 
 Posted:   Aug 2, 2020 - 5:49 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

THAT is like calling THE MISSOURI BREAKS John Williams's take on THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN.

Apples and oranges.

 
 Posted:   Aug 2, 2020 - 7:21 PM   
 By:   Totoro   (Member)

THAT is like calling THE MISSOURI BREAKS John Williams's take on THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN.

Apples and oranges.


Well, tell this to him!



And do not believe one can say that MISSOURI BREAKS is a trashy clone version of THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN...

 
 Posted:   Aug 2, 2020 - 7:45 PM   
 By:   Totoro   (Member)

THAT is like calling THE MISSOURI BREAKS John Williams's take on THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN.

Apples and oranges.


Besides, Morricone made especific comments about how he tought John William's aproach to Star Wars (and cience fiction at all by Hollywood) on an interview contained in the book ......, pag 113. He even talks about The Humanoid and his personal choice for the subject. Look:

Speaking of John Williams, it was very moving to see the two of you
sitting side by side on February 28, 2016, waiting for the verdict of
the Academy Award. Your hug, the moment after Quincy Jones
pronounced your name, and your speech in which you reaffirmed
your admiration for Williams are very eloquent gestures that need
no further comments, in the face of those who still claim that
competition comes before cooperation and self-respect—which
automatically becomes respect for others.
I know, however, that you were quite critical of the music for Star
Wars, a legendary saga that started right at the end of the seventies.
Is it the science fiction genre that doesn’t appeal to you, or is there
something else?


I like science fiction. My criticism was not directed to the genre or to
Star Wars in particular, which I enjoyed a lot from the very beginning of
the saga, but to the scoring style with which (especially Hollywood)
composers and directors have made us used to.

What seems hazardous to me is to associate a march, no matter how
well written, to outer space. Oftentimes, solutions of this sort stem not so
much from the lack of creativity or skills, but from mere commercial
concerns—as consequences of the rules imposed by the film industry.
I attempted a new direction with my score for The Humanoid
(L’umanoide, 1979) by Aldo Lado, in which I devised a six-voice double
fugue based on tonal harmony (the six voices were split in half between
the orchestra and the organ, with a double subject and a double
countersubject). The piece was titled “Incontro a sei” [Six-Faced
Encounter]; the work was grueling, but very stimulating at the same
time.

Although that production could not remotely compete with Star
Wars, to me this piece seemed to somewhat mirror the imaginary of the
universe, the infinite spaces and the sky, without giving in to clichés.
Obviously, such experiments were self-imposed necessities, rather
than obligatory pathways. Still, speaking both as a composer and a
filmgoer, I believe that a rather simplistic standardization of stylistic
choices has made film music less interesting over the years, in terms of
both conceptual depth and compositional methods.

John Williams is an exceptionally gifted composer whom I greatly
respect. Like all of his other film scores, his music for Star Wars is also
the work of a true musician; and yet, in that case, he made a commercial
choice—understandable, but still commercial. I could not have scored
Star Wars in that way, maybe that’s why neither Lucas nor Disney has
ever considered hiring me for the new trilogy . . . at least not so far.
He smiles.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 2, 2020 - 7:53 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

THAT is like calling THE MISSOURI BREAKS John Williams's take on THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN.

Apples and oranges.


Well, tell this to him!



And do not believe one can say that MISSOURI BREAKS is a trashy clone version of THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN...



Oh, you can find plenty of elements in all these films, from STARCRASH to THE BLACK HOLE, ripped from STAR WARS. But they don’t have the same focus or plot. With “Jaws” as your lead and this plot synopsis from IMDB:

“Hoping to overthrow his brother as ruler of the planet Metropolis, the evil Graal enlists the help of the insane Dr. Kraspin, who has invented a chemical capable of turning an ordinary person into a perfect soldier.”

If John Williams had taken this assignment for a friend, As Morricone had done for director Aldo Lado, HE would not have approached this in the same way as he had for the Lukas epic at all.

 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 1:53 AM   
 By:   No Respectable Gentleman   (Member)

That Main Title deserves the full symphony orchestra treatment -- might really have been something.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 2:34 AM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

Estasi Stellare is such a stunningly beautiful piece of music. Ennio always tried to avoid cliche and pastiche.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 3:23 AM   
 By:   Solaris   (Member)

The way that openeing track (Un Uomo Nello Spazio) slowly builds up is fantastic - its always been a favourite track of mine.

 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 7:53 AM   
 By:   Totoro   (Member)

Oh, you can find plenty of elements in all these films, from STARCRASH to THE BLACK HOLE, ripped from STAR WARS. But they don’t have the same focus or plot. With “Jaws” as your lead and this plot synopsis from IMDB:

“Hoping to overthrow his brother as ruler of the planet Metropolis, the evil Graal enlists the help of the insane Dr. Kraspin, who has invented a chemical capable of turning an ordinary person into a perfect soldier.”

If John Williams had taken this assignment for a friend, As Morricone had done for director Aldo Lado, HE would not have approached this in the same way as he had for the Lukas epic at all.


Friend, do not take me wrong.
All I said is that THE HUMANOID was Morricone's take on the STAR WARS genre.
And it was. He even said that in the interview I posted above:

"MORRICONE: John Williams is an exceptionally gifted composer whom I greatly
respect. Like all of his other film scores, his music for Star Wars is also
the work of a true musician; and yet, in that case, he made a commercial
choice—understandable, but still commercial".

So, in THE HUMANOID Morricone used what he considered to be the correct aproach to this kind of movie.
I love the music for the italian trash movie, but I don't think he was right on his aproach.
That's all. Maybe others consider he was right.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 8:24 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

Oh, you can find plenty of elements in all these films, from STARCRASH to THE BLACK HOLE, ripped from STAR WARS. But they don’t have the same focus or plot. With “Jaws” as your lead and this plot synopsis from IMDB:

“Hoping to overthrow his brother as ruler of the planet Metropolis, the evil Graal enlists the help of the insane Dr. Kraspin, who has invented a chemical capable of turning an ordinary person into a perfect soldier.”

If John Williams had taken this assignment for a friend, As Morricone had done for director Aldo Lado, HE would not have approached this in the same way as he had for the Lukas epic at all.


Friend, do not take me wrong.
All I said is that THE HUMANOID was Morricone's take on the STAR WARS genre.
And it was. He even said that in the interview I posted above:

"MORRICONE: John Williams is an exceptionally gifted composer whom I greatly
respect. Like all of his other film scores, his music for Star Wars is also
the work of a true musician; and yet, in that case, he made a commercial
choice—understandable, but still commercial".

So, in THE HUMANOID Morricone used what he considered to be the correct aproach to this kind of movie.
I love the music for the italian trash movie, but I don't think he was right on his aproach.
That's all. Maybe others consider he was right.



I consider myself an expert on this film, having seen it twice, which is at least once more than anyone involved in the production seems to have done. I think Morricone’s approach was perfect - score the film it should have been, rather then the atrocity it turned out to be. The music is the only thing that it should be remembered for. It also comes close in my opinion to how Bach might have scored it, and that’s good enough for me.

 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 8:32 AM   
 By:   Totoro   (Member)

I consider myself an expert on this film, having seen it twice, which is at least once more than anyone involved in the production seems to have done. I think Morricone’s approach was perfect - score the film it should have been, rather then the atrocity it turned out to be. The music is the only thing that it should be remembered for. It also comes close in my opinion to how Bach might have scored it, and that’s good enough for me.

But have you seem it on theaters like me???

So you agree with Morricone that John Williams' approach for STAR WARS was wrong?

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 9:50 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

I consider myself an expert on this film, having seen it twice, which is at least once more than anyone involved in the production seems to have done. I think Morricone’s approach was perfect - score the film it should have been, rather then the atrocity it turned out to be. The music is the only thing that it should be remembered for. It also comes close in my opinion to how Bach might have scored it, and that’s good enough for me.

But have you seem it on theaters like me???

So you agree with Morricone that John Williams' approach for STAR WARS was wrong?



Yes, the first time was in the cinema on release. The picture house closed down shortly after to become a bingo hall and I’m sure The Humanoid had something to do with that.

I have no opinion on whether JW’s approach to Star Wars was right or not. I know that a great deal of glorious music came out of it, and I don’t think that Williams has written anything quite like The Humanoid, nor Morricone anything like Star Wars. But I’m not a Star Wars fan so it doesn’t matter to me smile

 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 10:19 AM   
 By:   BillCarson   (Member)



Yes, the first time was in the cinema on release. The picture house closed down shortly after to become a bingo hall and I’m sure The Humanoid had something to do with that.


And the winner of the Bill Carson's Comedy Post of the Day goes to TG.

 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 11:03 AM   
 By:   Totoro   (Member)



Yes, the first time was in the cinema on release. The picture house closed down shortly after to become a bingo hall and I’m sure The Humanoid had something to do with that.


And the winner of the Bill Carson's Comedy Post of the Day goes to TG.


Hey! Golob was very strong, so I suppose he could close down a theater and transform it in bingo with his bare hands!

 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 11:05 AM   
 By:   Totoro   (Member)


Yes, the first time was in the cinema on release. The picture house closed down shortly after to become a bingo hall and I’m sure The Humanoid had something to do with that.

I have no opinion on whether JW’s approach to Star Wars was right or not. I know that a great deal of glorious music came out of it, and I don’t think that Williams has written anything quite like The Humanoid, nor Morricone anything like Star Wars. But I’m not a Star Wars fan so it doesn’t matter to me smile


Yes, but did you humm the main theme in a cassete recorder?? razz

Like I said, THE HUMANOID is Morricone's take on STAR WARS.
For better or worse.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 11:21 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)


Yes, the first time was in the cinema on release. The picture house closed down shortly after to become a bingo hall and I’m sure The Humanoid had something to do with that.

I have no opinion on whether JW’s approach to Star Wars was right or not. I know that a great deal of glorious music came out of it, and I don’t think that Williams has written anything quite like The Humanoid, nor Morricone anything like Star Wars. But I’m not a Star Wars fan so it doesn’t matter to me smile


Yes, but did you humm the main theme in a cassete recorder?? razz

Like I said, THE HUMANOID is Morricone's take on STAR WARS.
For better or worse.



I’m not a hummy man.

 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 12:30 PM   
 By:   Totoro   (Member)

I’m not a hummy man.

Nobody is perfect.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 1:48 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)



Friend, do not take me wrong.
All I said is that THE HUMANOID was Morricone's take on the STAR WARS genre.
And it was. He even said that in the interview I posted above:

"MORRICONE: John Williams is an exceptionally gifted composer whom I greatly
respect. Like all of his other film scores, his music for Star Wars is also
the work of a true musician; and yet, in that case, he made a commercial
choice—understandable, but still commercial".

So, in THE HUMANOID Morricone used what he considered to be the correct aproach to this kind of movie.
I love the music for the italian trash movie, but I don't think he was right on his aproach.
That's all. Maybe others consider he was right.


Indeed this is a friendly conversation. And I am glad this has moved from STAR WARS specifically to the genre of science fiction.

So you have to go back to before STAR WARS when science fiction scores went along the lines of FORBIDDEN PLANET, THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL or this original STAR WARS teaser:



George Lucas was in a bad space having made a low budget film (AMERICAN GRAFFITI) that brought Universal millions and millions of dollars. He wanted to do the same thing with a guerilla style made war film called APOCALYPSE NOW but after a year of rejection from every studio he gave up in disgust. When he turned to his "Flash Gordon'" style film he was exhausted and figured it would be his last movie, so he threw in elements of everything he had dreamed of (pirate movie, western, WWII dogfight film) to get it all out. This altered his sci-fi film into one that happened "Long ago in a galaxy far, far away". His only instruction to Williams was since there is so much weird stuff in my film I want the music to be familiar, a throwback to Flash Gordon. Williams took that and ran with it knowing Korngold made the best pirate music around.

Now Morricone has been allergic to music of heroism, police, marches, etc. all his life. That was because when he was a kid Mussolini's police, marches and heroism was not to be trusted. But that does not mean he can't do them. For THE UNTOUCHABLES Morricone gave Brian DePalma 5 possibilities for main themes and according to Ennio Brian picked the worst...but it did work in the movie. Why the worst? Because it was gloriously exultant and inspired about the heroism of the police. And with a film like this it is exactly what is needed.

This why I believe, if prodded and explained by Lucas, Morricone would have come up with something credible for STAR WARS in 1977. Not Korngoldian like Williams but something equivalent. As to this rip-off THE HUMANOID, which for me is as close to ROBOCOP as STAR WARS, there certainly was room for him to go his own way. Particularly since it was a favor for director Aldo Lado whom he had done 7 films with at this point.

Did Williams ever do scores for cheesy films? I think DADDY-O, BECAUSE THEY'RE YOUNG and I PASSED FOR WHITE would qualify. And as to bigger budget films where the score was an awkward fit HEARTBEEPS should do it. Personally if anybody but Spielberg had submitted HOOK to be scored I think he would have passed. Understanding that great main theme for that was written for the teaser one year before it was released, where Williams (and I) had to imagine the great Peter Pan movie Steven might have made.

As an aside most know Morricone was supposed to do CLOCKWORK ORANGE but due to unfortunate circumstances he didn't. Flash forward 8 years to the only other Sci-fi film o his agenda THE HUMANOID. For some unknown reason a nod to Beethoven's Ode to Joy pops up at the 3:10 mark of his main title. I do not see the connection to THE HUMANOID but absolutely see where it might work in Kubrick's film. Are we hearing what he had in mind for that classic?

 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 4:28 PM   
 By:   Totoro   (Member)

So you have to go back to before STAR WARS when science fiction scores went along the lines of FORBIDDEN PLANET, THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL or this original STAR WARS teaser:



Yes, I know that. But I think the romantic approach for science fiction, instead of the one focused on the "hardware", is much bettter.

This is what helped STAR WARS, STAR TREK to reach high levels of appreciation.

I love Morricone's THE HUMANOID as pure music, but in the movie it is just ludicrous, particulary in the action scenes.

 
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