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 Posted:   Jul 23, 2020 - 10:49 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

The 007 theme IMO is nowhere near as great as the James Bond theme.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2020 - 11:47 AM   
 By:   Mike F   (Member)

As great as the Bond theme is, I prefer Majesty’s.

 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2020 - 12:17 PM   
 By:   Warlok   (Member)

I posted this in another "Bond theme authorship" thread a couple of years ago...

Here's how it all appears to me...

Monty Norman was the head chef at a restaurant. Someone ordered a "steak dinner". Norman went to work, and the customer was presented with a plate containing a bland, tasteless steak -- and nothing else.

The customer immediately sent it back for being unsatisfactory.

The manager then called on another chef, John Barry, and asked him "Can you do anything with this?" Barry looked at the steak, rolled his eyes, and went to work.

Barry sprinkled spices and other garnishings onto the steak, and also added a baked potato, string beans, a salad and bread to the plate.

The customer was elated. "Delicious!" he exclaimed. "Who made this?"

"I did!" proclaimed a proud Monty Norman (who was subsequently replaced by John Barry as the head chef).

Norman contends "It was a steak dinner. I provided the steak."

Barry shrugs, "If he made the dinner, why wasn't he kept-on as head chef?"


I concur - excellent analogy for a somewhat sticky situation.

I would also add something that I regret to some extent confronts or attacks a conceit, yet nonetheless is important. Two things, really.

First, the first time I heard of Monty Norman composer was as creditted for the James Bond Theme. It was also the last time I heard of Monty Norman.

Second, the full credits on You Only Live Twice, Moonraker, The Living Daylights, Goldfinger, The Man With The Golden Gun, and On Her Majesty's Secret Service say John Barry.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2020 - 3:54 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)


Paul,

This seems to be the perfect analogy! Perhaps future editions of the Bond movies will state...

James Bond Theme:
Slab of Beef by Monty Norman
Seasoned Steak and Accoutrements by John Barry



It's actually a poor analogy, because copyright law does not apply to food and clothing, as they are necessities.

Nice try, though!

 
 Posted:   Jul 23, 2020 - 9:40 PM   
 By:   Paul MacLean   (Member)


Paul,

This seems to be the perfect analogy! Perhaps future editions of the Bond movies will state...

James Bond Theme:
Slab of Beef by Monty Norman
Seasoned Steak and Accoutrements by John Barry



It's actually a poor analogy, because copyright law does not apply to food and clothing, as they are necessities.


It was meant somewhat satirically. I never implied food could by copyrighted. roll eyes

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2020 - 4:36 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)


Paul,

This seems to be the perfect analogy! Perhaps future editions of the Bond movies will state...

James Bond Theme:
Slab of Beef by Monty Norman
Seasoned Steak and Accoutrements by John Barry



It's actually a poor analogy, because copyright law does not apply to food and clothing, as they are necessities.

Nice try, though!



Okay, try selling Champagne made in California smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2020 - 9:28 AM   
 By:   William R.   (Member)

As great as the Bond theme is, I prefer Majesty’s.

The View to a Kill action theme is great too.

 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2021 - 12:12 PM   
 By:   PollyAnna   (Member)

Always an interesting discussion when it comes to the James Bond theme. Having seen Dr No again recently it seems plain to me that Monty provided the melody he adapted from his abandoned tune for the stage musical A House for Mr. Biswas and that's all. That was the famous Dum de dum dum line. The arrangement by Barry is the rest of the theme. If you listen to Monty's score arranged by Burt Rhodes you can hear this short melody worked into parts of it but there is no evidence of the rest of the theme. Conclusion: Monty provided the Biswas part (adapted slightly) and Barry conceived the rest.
Mention should also be made of Daphne Oram the renowned pioneer in electronic music. She provided the slightly otherworldly beeps that begin the Dr. No titles and more later in Dr. No's lair especially Bond in the air vents.
There's an interesting article here. https://midcenturybond.wordpress.com/2020/03/17/the-early-james-bond-music-atoms-from-space/

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2021 - 6:03 PM   
 By:   Alex Klein   (Member)

Talk about beating a dead horse.

The James Bond theme was composed by both Monty Norman and John Barry. But artists are famous for their egos, so neither Norman nor Barry were willing to share credit.

From a musicological standpoint, the riff is clearly Norman's work, and the rest is John Barry.

Alex

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 14, 2021 - 6:07 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Who got the gig, and who didn't?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2021 - 4:22 PM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)


There's an interesting article here. https://midcenturybond.wordpress.com/2020/03/17/the-early-james-bond-music-atoms-from-space/


Thanks for this link Polly Anna...............Interesting article....

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2021 - 4:40 AM   
 By:   AndrewH   (Member)


But artists are famous for their egos, so neither Norman nor Barry were willing to share credit.


That may have been true with Monty Norman but from what I saw of John Barry, he rarely got embroiled in these sorts of issues.

I think he was only summoned to the Monty Norman case when Norman sued The Sunday Times.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/1229406.stm

Mr Barry said that a deal was struck whereby he would receive a flat fee of £250 and Mr Norman would receive the songwriting credit.

Mr Barry said that he had had never challenged the registration of the songwriting credit with the Performing Right Society and had no intention of doing so.

He had accepted the deal with United Artists Head of Music Noel Rogers because it would help his career - and it was a "terribly good deal because the whole Bond thing took off."

 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2021 - 11:41 AM   
 By:   PollyAnna   (Member)


There's an interesting article here. https://midcenturybond.wordpress.com/2020/03/17/the-early-james-bond-music-atoms-from-space/


Thanks for this link Polly Anna...............Interesting article....


You're welcome Peter.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2021 - 1:57 PM   
 By:   Hercule Platini   (Member)

Who got the gig, and who didn't?

Does it matter? If Norman didn't want to do any more, and the producers didn't like Norman's non-source score ("mining disaster music") but they did like what Barry had done with the Theme (made a hit out of it), why wouldn't they offer the gig to Barry? That doesn't lessen Norman's contribution to the James Bond theme. You can't just merrily rewrite history in favour of the sainted Barry to say Norman didn't compose it. (Well, you can but you'd be wrong. He wrote enough of it to qualify.) And much as I love some of the Barry Bond scores, I can't get angry at Norman's credit on the end of every film.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2021 - 2:05 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Who got the gig, and who didn't?

Does it matter?


It does.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2021 - 2:11 PM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

I have a theory it was Arthur Morton.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2021 - 3:32 PM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

Who got the gig, and who didn't?

Does it matter? If Norman didn't want to do any more, and the producers didn't like Norman's non-source score ("mining disaster music") but they did like what Barry had done with the Theme (made a hit out of it), why wouldn't they offer the gig to Barry? That doesn't lessen Norman's contribution to the James Bond theme. You can't just merrily rewrite history in favour of the sainted Barry to say Norman didn't compose it. (Well, you can but you'd be wrong. He wrote enough of it to qualify.) And much as I love some of the Barry Bond scores, I can't get angry at Norman's credit on the end of every film.

------------
In court in 2001, Norman claimed that the reason he didn't score any more films for Eon was that he wanted more money. Saltzman was quoted as saying "If you want to discuss money, then we can't do business' Sadly, Saltzman was no longer around to confirm Norman's story.

 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2021 - 4:26 PM   
 By:   johnonymous86   (Member)

Okay, to be fair the theme is pretty musically simplistic. It's a common progression. Not to discredit Norman's contribution but Mahler this ain't.

Barry turned a simple hook into a memorable theme song. Regardless of who gets royalty checks and who has their name printed under the title, they are both inextricably linked to the song's success. A bit like Paul Desmond bringing two noodling riffs to Dave Brubeck who reworked them into one of the most popular American jazz songs of all time. Yeah Desmond wrote the riffs but there wouldn't be a Take Five without Brubeck.

It's a pity they can't share credit but it does put Barry in the slightly better light for not causing a fuss.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 20, 2021 - 9:47 PM   
 By:   Chris Malone   (Member)

Not that it matters one bit, however, I did ask engineer Eric Tomlinson about The James Bond Theme one time. He was definite that Monty Norman composed it and John Barry arranged it for Dr No and, of course, did new arrangements for the films he composed songs and score for.

Chris

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2021 - 5:54 AM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

Here is Monty Norman's own version of The James Bond Theme recorded for his Completing The Circle album in 2005. It consists of the Bad Sign, Good Sign riff + jazz improvisation......what happened to the bridge and the bebob sections?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6FY9SGv5gI

 
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